From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Still unable to build trunk Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:06:42 +0200 Message-ID: <83k4hvzbgd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y66fv2d3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D388F7F.20708@swipnet.se> <87r5c7jk5m.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D39EF9C.1050804@cs.ucla.edu> <4D3A8666.4070609@cs.ucla.edu> <877hdvd49f.fsf@meyering.net> <83mxmrzhb6.fsf@gnu.org> <87vd1fbk16.fsf@meyering.net> <83lj2bzdvj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bp37bgpj.fsf@meyering.net> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1295809603 9458 80.91.229.12 (23 Jan 2011 19:06:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:06:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Meyering Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 23 20:06:38 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph5Gj-0000p7-AR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:06:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40412 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ph5Gg-0005Ah-Ul for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:06:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34990 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ph5Gc-0005AR-BI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:06:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph5Ga-0005Qd-NP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:06:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:41666) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph5Ga-0005Of-Da for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:06:24 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LFH00H00OVS6A00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:06:23 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.46.39]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LFH00FTVP2LB5G0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:06:22 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87bp37bgpj.fsf@meyering.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:134869 Archived-At: > From: Jim Meyering > Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, cyd@stupidchicken.com, jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:47:04 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Jim Meyering > >> Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, cyd@stupidchicken.com, jan.h.d@swipnet.se, > >> emacs-devel@gnu.org > >> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:35:17 +0100 > >> > >> Requiring the installation of a few commonly-used and very portable tools > >> does not make a steep curve. It's more of a small, one-time investment. > > > > You forget about dependencies. > > Hardly. The few programs we're talking about > (mainly just m4, automake and autoconf) have very few dependencies. You are talking about a specific example, while I'm talking about adding prerequisites in principle. > People participating in emacs development (even if only building > from latest cloned sources) can be expected to follow a few simple > instructions. If they have to rerun a few commands after someone > else upgrades their development system, that does not strike me as an > unreasonable burden, and certainly not as an exponentially heavy one. It's easy for us old-timers to say. Not so easy for everyone else to follow suit. > I see that you're using over 22GiB(!) there. > Remove just one of your many emacs-*.tar.gz files > and that will free far more space than any tiny tool > installation would consume. Please believe me that I need everything that I have there. > > Anyway, this is just an example of why adding more prerequisites is > > not something to do easily, IMO. > > If we recoil from every task that at first appears nontrivial, > we will never make progress. There's a world of possibilities between "recoil from" and "accept without discussion". > Re "just a couple gnulib functions", Paul deliberately made the > initial introduction small. There are many more opportunities. You cannot fight the fire if you wait until it consumes the entire building.