From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC mode and git Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:53:17 +0300 Message-ID: <83k2xtpgwi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83twx2xoc8.fsf@gnu.org> <87619hke3u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <551A3F17.6020903@math.ntnu.no> <20150331085055.GA2871@acm.fritz.box> <87zj6tiko1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150331104935.GB2871@acm.fritz.box> <87y4mdi7tj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150331214347.GH2871@acm.fritz.box> <20150401103225.GA2633@acm.fritz.box> <87h9t080gx.fsf@javad.com> <83384jsx3o.fsf@gnu.org> <83pp7nrfdn.fsf@gnu.org> <83a8yqr226.fsf@gnu.org> <831tk2qvz5.fsf@gnu.org> <87384ii26v.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428062027 20138 80.91.229.3 (3 Apr 2015 11:53:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 11:53:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, sorganov@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 03 13:53:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ye0AH-0004TY-SE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 13:53:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33726 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ye0AH-0007CA-93 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:53:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ye0AE-0007Br-CL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:53:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ye0A7-0008IJ-Tv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:60541) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ye0A7-0008HX-Go; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:53:23 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NM800500BE4YU00@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:48:38 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NM8003O4BH24E20@mtaout25.012.net.il>; Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:48:38 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:184833 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 07:04:54 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: eliz@gnu.org, sorganov@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > If there is no simple way to explain what that operation does, that means > Git is hard to understand. That is a grave flaw in Git. IME, Git _is_ hard to understand, but only if you want to dig deeper than necessary under the hood. In this case, I don't think that it's hard to understand what committing does, because it basically does what the same operation does in any other VCS -- unless you are talking about implementation details, like how exact is the commit data represented on disk etc. This is not so easy with operations that have no direct equivalents in other VCSes, or have a significantly different semantics in Git. The main problem IME is that most documentation out there describes those operations inadequately, when seen from the POV of someone who has deep roots in other VCSes and no need/desire to learn the implementation details. So in those cases you have no other way but make up your own mind and form your own mental model of those operations, based on what you read and process, and your own experience. > If Git requires programmers to adopt a different and complex way of thinking > in order to use it, that is a grave flaw in Git. IME, it does require that, but only for workflows that are radically different from what you are used to. Workflows that you are used to don't require a change in your mindset, only to memorize a couple of new commands and perhaps also customize Git a bit, to conceal some unnecessary complications and make Git a bit more like the other VCSes. > I wish Bzr had had continued support so that we could have stayed with > it. Agreed.