From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Explicit encoding cookie in Elisp files Add prettify-symbols-alist for js-mode Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:24:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83k2rbdk8u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1443268188.7436.0@smtp.gmail.com> <834mihgvb9.fsf@gnu.org> <1443283198.7442.0@smtp.gmail.com> <56074E0F.6060209@yandex.ru> <83r3lkfleu.fsf@gnu.org> <560788DB.6000104@yandex.ru> <83oagofhhi.fsf@gnu.org> <5607A721.2020002@yandex.ru> <83h9mgfe78.fsf@gnu.org> <5607ADCC.8080407@yandex.ru> <83d1x4fabf.fsf@gnu.org> <5607F919.9090600@yandex.ru> <831tdjg14c.fsf@gnu.org> <56083FD0.4020501@yandex.ru> <83y4frejbu.fsf@gnu.org> <56084F04.2040501@yandex.ru> <83vbavefup.fsf@gnu.org> <5608BF16.2020605@yandex.ru> <83oagndmva.fsf@gnu.org> <5608F1FC.8090904@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443443446 12045 80.91.229.3 (28 Sep 2015 12:30:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 12:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 28 14:30:37 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZgXZj-0004ax-7d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 14:30:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36327 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZgXZi-00086U-2i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:30:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53861) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZgTjY-0002c2-VC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 04:24:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZgTjV-0005hd-0O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 04:24:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:37347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZgTjU-0005gd-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 04:24:24 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NVD00J00OGY3600@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:24:23 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NVD00JW7OOM1H40@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:24:23 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <5608F1FC.8090904@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190435 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:53:32 +0300 > > > And the [need to visit Emacs files with older Emacs versions] > > happens, at least to me, quite a lot, e.g. when I need to look at > > those files on a system where only an older Emacs is installed or > > usable. > > Hopefully, that will occur less and less. 24.4 will soon be a year old. Of course. But I still routinely work on systems where 23.2 is the latest installed version, and I'm a simple user there, so I cannot upgrade that. > > Did you see how many of our Lisp files already have the cookie that > > states UTF-8 encoding? (Answer: 197.) Moreover, various features > > that generate *.el files automatically insert the cookie there, see > > autoload.el and ido.el for just 2 examples. Did this bother you, or > > anyone else, until now? > > I wasn't actively aware of that, but I imagine a lot of them come from > before Emacs 24.4 (both files and generation scripts). > > If it's inconsistency you dislike, I can commit to spend the effort and > remove the cookies where they're not strictly required, if you like. I did what I did semi-automatically because we were doing that for years. I didn't even remember that we default to UTF-8 in *.el files until Stefan reminded me. Why? because we never bothered to remove the cookies after we made that change, nor stop producing them in auto-generated *.el files. Inconsistency? Yes, I dislike it, but I dislike discrimination and lack of fair play even more. > > So why did that single commit, which added a > > cookie to 3 more files, for a 1.5% growth, suddenly bother you? I > > just did what we have been doing for many years, something that was > > burned into my muscle memory during all those years. > > Imagine that we added a new syntax feature to Elisp, used it for over a > year from time to time in some new code, and them one of the developers > "desugared" all its uses into more verbose code that's compatible with > older Emacsen. The present situation is not as absurd, but that's the > direction I'm looking at it from. Once again, you are blowing out of proportion a minor issue. It lacks any potential for any kind of grave consequences, so far-fetched absurd analogies are inappropriate here. One more reason for me to suspect the issue itself is not what made you so worked up. > > IOW, don't you see how this minuscule issue is blown out of > > proportions for reasons I cannot even begin to understand? And why do > > you single out only those 3 files, but say nothing about the others? > > If you really dislike those cookies so much, I'd expect you to first > > realize the magnitude of the "problem", and then attack it > > consistently across the board, rather than pouncing on my single > > commit. > > We also have lots of compilation warnings, non-idiomatic (or just > somewhat obsolete) uses of Elisp in different places, and other similar > problems, for which there's not enough manpower/enthusiasm to fix. Judging by the energy invested in this discussion, I don't think we should lack manpower/enthusiasm to fix the issue consistently, only redirect it. Assuming, that is, that the issue is indeed the cookies themselves. > But like I said, my issue is not with individual cookies Then why did you want to revert db828f6? > but with the strong suggestion to add them everywhere UTF-8 is used. The text in CONTRIBUTE is hardly a "strong" suggestion.