From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: Re: Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 23:10:22 +0200 Message-ID: <83k2pojl8h.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8337wdn6uu.fsf@gnu.org> <86611975jo.fsf_-_@stephe-leake.org> <838u65kxly.fsf@gnu.org> <86mvuk4xxd.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <831tbwlext.fsf@gnu.org> <5643A77D.90704@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447276317 25976 80.91.229.3 (11 Nov 2015 21:11:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:11:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, john@yates-sheets.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 11 22:11:50 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwcgE-0004Ks-ST for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:11:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43002 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwcgF-0006xh-5n for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:11:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37011) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwcfh-0006to-K4 for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:11:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwcf2-0003OD-6C for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:11:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:48427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zwcf1-0003Ng-Ty for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:10:32 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NXO00B005AX8800@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 23:10:30 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NXO00BZN5HH7C10@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 23:10:30 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <5643A77D.90704@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.tangents:6 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-tangents@gnu.org, john@yates-sheets.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:39:25 +0200 > > On 11/11/2015 05:43 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> These considerations will become valid only when we have enough > >>> developers paying attention to bugs that are reported. (That includes > >>> you, Stephen, btw.) > > > > (Upon re-reading, I apologize for being so blunt. It just feels too > > lonely there, at times.) > > I think a significant part of that problem is self-imposed. Not sure I understand what you mean by that. Self-imposed by me? > Personally, I try to pay attention to bugs that are related to code that > I at least have touched at some point, or bugs that affect me directly, > but it seems there aren't too many of those. And I don't think it's > reasonable to expect much more of any contributor. I disagree. IME, frequently just looking or stepping through unfamiliar code can reveal bugs whose reasons we can easily understand and fix. Just a few minutes ago I had this experience once more, see bug#21881. I assure you I knew nothing at all about mm-url.el, and still don't. Still, it took me just a few minutes to understand why EWW barfs and see the solution that I'm sure is right. You should try this some time. I think everybody here should. Worst that could happen is that you will only be able to add some non-trivial information to the bug report, based on what you saw, without actually finding a solution. But even that alone could allow someone else to suggest a solution. That, too, have happened to me. Bottom line is: people like you and me (and many others here) know quite a lot about Emacs and about debugging, and can find solutions to many bugs even in unfamiliar code. > Our bug tracker is peculiar, and on its own turns many less experienced > users away. Users that could participate in triaging bugs, at least, if > not writing patches. Maybe trying out submitted patches, too. Yes, triage would help as well. As for the bug tracker, I don't see how it could have such a detrimental effect on potential contributors. It's just a mailing list, not unlike this one. In addition, we have an Emacs package that interacts with the tracker, so one could work with bugs without ever looking at either the Web forms or the email messages. I'm not saying there's no place for improvements, but I cannot imagine that the reason for such a small number of people who work on bugs is the bug tracker. I think it's more likely the fear of diving into unfamiliar code.