From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tabulated list recenter issue Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:17:52 +0300 Message-ID: <83k26oj0fj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h93dogki.fsf@escafil> <87mvbm30lc.fsf@escafil> <83o9w2jh6m.fsf@gnu.org> <75f53b81-cee5-db91-3eee-3819b120ad28@gmail.com> <83lgr6jdui.fsf@gnu.org> <83efwxkd6t.fsf@gnu.org> <162c61b1-7517-761a-e00b-d1e3f75118c4@gmail.com> <83a87lk9ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1chgliu.fsf@escafil> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1492064260 24950 195.159.176.226 (13 Apr 2017 06:17:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:17:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ian Dunn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 13 08:17:34 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4U-0006N3-5f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:17:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47568 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4a-0002yU-62 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:17:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52235) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4U-0002yP-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:17:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4R-0006Vx-LD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:17:34 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55433) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4R-0006Vt-Hk; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:17:31 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1914 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cyY4Q-0008E4-M4; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:17:31 -0400 In-reply-to: <87d1chgliu.fsf@escafil> (message from Ian Dunn on Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:10:33 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:213927 Archived-At: > From: Ian Dunn > Cc: Clément Pit-Claudel , > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:10:33 -0400 > > If there are people that like the current behavior (obviously you're one > of them), then I agree that my proposed changes should only be optional. IME, after enough years have passed over a certain behavior, we have no good ways of predicting whether someone or something out there depend on it. In our "arrogance" (pardon my French) we tried from time to time to pretend that we do know, and changed the long-standing behavior in backward-incompatible ways, only to discover later that someone got hurt or that subtle hard-to-solve bugs emerged. In general, I think it makes sense, in such a veteran package, to always leave a "fire escape" for those who must have the old behavior, as a matter of principle. We should realize that we can no longer change Emacs in arbitrary incompatible ways, not after 30-odd years of history and many veteran users who have certain habits burnt into their muscle memory. We should make this part of our development practice. Thanks.