From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Splitting GNU ELPA Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:02:53 +0300 Message-ID: <83k11881ki.fsf@gnu.org> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <405FCFAB-30E4-4F98-81DA-3B09933E86D0@gnu.org> <83eerh9ue3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="100202"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 19 16:03:38 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb2qI-000Pz2-NZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:03:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42176 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb2qH-0005qz-Nq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:03:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36856) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb2pi-00050p-5e for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb2ph-0008D6-Rv for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3389 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jb2pa-0001uQ-H4; Tue, 19 May 2020 10:02:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 18 May 2020 23:55:51 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250918 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: Emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 23:55:51 -0400 > > > My opinion on these matters means very little, but FWIW I basically > > agree with what Stefan wrote. > > Your opinion matters, but Stefan has said many things and I don't > recall them all precisely. I may not even have seen all those messages. > > Could you restate the position you agree with? Here's what Stefan said about this: FWIW, I'm not too fond of such shorthand syntax. The benefit is not very high and it makes the language that much more difficult to learn for newcomers. For a programming language like Closure, it might make sense, since most/all people writing Closure programs are actual programmers that have to be proficient in Clojure. But Elisp lambdas are very common in .emacs files, so this additional complexity will be exposed to some of our users who aren't programmers or aren't proficient in Elisp. [ Yes, I know it may sound strange coming from me, since I'm to blame for a lot of complexity in Elisp :-( But to my defense, `pcase` and `cl-defmethod` aren't nearly as often needed in .emacs as lambdas. ] I can already see the discussions in forums about "what's the difference between #(f % 1) and (lambda (x) (f x 1))", "when should I use which", ... If we want to shorten anonymous functions we could start with something like (λ (x) (f x 1)), which you can get with prettify-symbols-mode already.