From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Always-true predicate? Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 15:34:13 +0200 Message-ID: <83k0r42nca.fsf@gnu.org> References: <875z2qoqc6.fsf@gnus.org> <87eehcsal4.fsf@gmail.com> <83zh002zjm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15325"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 19 14:35:36 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lD5wV-0003ru-KM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 14:35:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44710 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lD5wU-0007Yo-Ka for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:35:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45196) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lD5vE-00060x-MS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:34:16 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47054) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lD5vE-0006Dj-8M; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:34:16 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2011 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lD5ux-0003g3-Vb; Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:34:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:52:57 -0600) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265248 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 06:52:57 -0600 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I must diverge somewhat here, and express my uneasiness, to say the > > least, with the recent-ish fashion of making too many user options > > have function values. It makes "M-x set-variable" much less > > convenient than it should be, and it makes customizing such options > > harder for users who aren't proficient in Lisp. > > Could you elaborate on how it makes it harder to customize? Isn't it clear that typing a function at set-variable's prompt is much less convenient than typing an atom, like a symbol, a string, or a number? For starters, it is much more typing. And then it's easy to make a mistake, which will require you to start over again. > Doesn't `customize-option' hide that away? I was talking about set-variable, not about customize-option. But even with customize-option things are much less convenient when using function values. You say "hide", and mean the values that are already in the :choice list. But what about values that aren't? Customization is about _changing_ the defaults, not about leaving them unchanged. Typing a function's name, let alone a lambda-expression, in the Custom form is no fun. So having a user option whose value _must_ be a function is a PITA. And then we have this annoyance from "C-h v" as well: read-extended-command-predicate is a variable defined in ‘simple.el’. Its value is #f(compiled-function (s b) #) That's not very useful display for a user option. > BTW, should perhaps `set-variable' support completing on the forms in > :type somehow? It already does, sort-of. Try typing a value that doesn't fit :type, and you'll see that in action.