Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli and I have discussed the schedule, and we've decided to
(tentatively) aim for cutting the emacs-29 branch in two months time;
i.e., late November.  After that, we'll be doing pre-releases from that
branch, and then as usual -- bug fixes on the emacs-29 branch and new
features on "master", and then the Emacs 29.1 release sometime in
spring.

So if anybody have some new features they really want to have in Emacs
29.1, they should push them to "master" soonish.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Bastien]

Hi Lars,

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> So if anybody have some new features they really want to have in Emacs
> 29.1, they should push them to "master" soonish.

We aim at releasing Org 9.6 in a few weeks from now, with important
improvements compared to Org 9.5.x.

If "soonish" is around mid-november, that will probably work for us,
but if it is mid-october, it will be difficult.

Can you send another warning one month (or X weeks) before the actual
feature freeze?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> We aim at releasing Org 9.6 in a few weeks from now, with important
> improvements compared to Org 9.5.x.
>
> If "soonish" is around mid-november, that will probably work for us,
> but if it is mid-october, it will be difficult.

We're aiming to cut the new release branch in late November.

> Can you send another warning one month (or X weeks) before the actual
> feature freeze?

Will do.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Bastien]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> We're aiming to cut the new release branch in late November.
>
>> Can you send another warning one month (or X weeks) before the actual
>> feature freeze?
>
> Will do.

Thank you!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Bastien]

Hi Lars,

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> We're aiming to cut the new release branch in late November.

Is it still the plan?

Ideally, a 2-3 weeks delay between Emacs 29.1 and Org 9.6 would help
us fix new bugs and release 9.6.1 to be included in Emacs 29.1.

Given that delay and given Emacs release expectations, what would be
the best time to release Org?

If we can release 9.6 in late november and fix bugs until mid-december
then release and sync 9.6.1, that'd be great.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Po Lu]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi Lars,
>
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> We're aiming to cut the new release branch in late November.
>
> Is it still the plan?
>
> Ideally, a 2-3 weeks delay between Emacs 29.1 and Org 9.6 would help
> us fix new bugs and release 9.6.1 to be included in Emacs 29.1.
>
> Given that delay and given Emacs release expectations, what would be
> the best time to release Org?
>
> If we can release 9.6 in late november and fix bugs until mid-december
> then release and sync 9.6.1, that'd be great.
>
> Thanks,

I think we should not cut the branch until bug#59183 is fixed.  I run
into that serious crash every few days.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org,  Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>,  Kyle Meyer
>  <kyle@kyleam.com>
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 05:43:14 +0100
> 
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> 
> > We're aiming to cut the new release branch in late November.
> 
> Is it still the plan?

Yes.

> Ideally, a 2-3 weeks delay between Emacs 29.1 and Org 9.6 would help
> us fix new bugs and release 9.6.1 to be included in Emacs 29.1.

Sorry, I don't follow.  The schedule above is for cutting the release
branch, which will start the Emacs 29.1 release cycle and will be
followed by a period of pretest.  When that preset ends and Emacs 29.1
will be released is not yet known beyond some general hopes.

So why are you worried about the Org release, and why are you talking
about fixing bugs after Emacs 29.1 is released? why not fix them while
Emacs 29.1 is in pretest?

> Given that delay and given Emacs release expectations, what would be
> the best time to release Org?
> 
> If we can release 9.6 in late november and fix bugs until mid-december
> then release and sync 9.6.1, that'd be great.

Late November is just when we cut the emacs-29 release branch, so I
don't see how the release of Org 9.6 could be related to that in any
way.  What am I missing?

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org,  Ihor
>  Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>,  Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com>
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 12:52:17 +0800
> 
> I think we should not cut the branch until bug#59183 is fixed.  I run
> into that serious crash every few days.

We will not release Emacs 29.1 with that bug, that's for sure.  But I
don't want to wait for its solution before cutting the release branch,
since we can continue working on it after the branching.

If your crashes are like the one reported there, how about if you
disable mouse-highlight as a temporary workaround?

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Bastien]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> So why are you worried about the Org release, and why are you talking
> about fixing bugs after Emacs 29.1 is released? why not fix them while
> Emacs 29.1 is in pretest?

My assumption was that we have to release Org 9.6 _before_ the Emacs
29.1 release cycle begins because the Emacs release branch will be for
bug fixes only and we would not be able to update Org to 9.6 in Emacs
then.

Is it so?  Or can we release Org 9.6 _after_ Emacs release branch has
been cut and sync it in this release branch after?  (I understand that
sync'ing Org 9.6.1, a bug-fix only release, in the release branch is
fine.)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> We will not release Emacs 29.1 with that bug, that's for sure.  But I
> don't want to wait for its solution before cutting the release branch,
> since we can continue working on it after the branching.

OK, thanks, I thought might not have been okay to do that after the
branch was cut.

BTW, that means I can keep fixing regressions from Emacs 28 in the X
code, right?  There may still be problems with obscure input devices
which used to work with the core input code, but need special treatment
on XI2.

> If your crashes are like the one reported there, how about if you
> disable mouse-highlight as a temporary workaround?

I'll try that and see if that makes it better.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
> Cc: larsi@gnus.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org,  yantar92@gmail.com,  kyle@kyleam.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:23:11 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > So why are you worried about the Org release, and why are you talking
> > about fixing bugs after Emacs 29.1 is released? why not fix them while
> > Emacs 29.1 is in pretest?
> 
> My assumption was that we have to release Org 9.6 _before_ the Emacs
> 29.1 release cycle begins because the Emacs release branch will be for
> bug fixes only and we would not be able to update Org to 9.6 in Emacs
> then.

I see no reason to require the emacs-29 branch to have a released
version of Org in it.  From the Emacs POV, what matters is that you
don't add new features to Org that is part of the branch after the
branching point.  Other than that, you can make the official Org 9.6
release whenever you want, as long as what will be on master
immediately before the branching point is close enough to 9.6, such
that only minor changes (and bugfixes) will be needed there before
Emacs 29.1 is released.

> Is it so?  Or can we release Org 9.6 _after_ Emacs release branch has
> been cut and sync it in this release branch after?

This is undesirable if what we have now on master is very different
from 9.6.  If it is not very different, you are free to release Org
9.6 whenever you want.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I think we should not cut the branch until bug#59183 is fixed.  I run
>> into that serious crash every few days.
> We will not release Emacs 29.1 with that bug, that's for sure.  But I
> don't want to wait for its solution before cutting the release branch,
> since we can continue working on it after the branching.

FWIW, a fix is in the works.  It doesn't require drastic changes (a few
new functions in itree.c, admittedly, but basically nothing changed
outside of it).


        Stefan

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: bzg@gnu.org,  larsi@gnus.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org,  yantar92@gmail.com,
>   kyle@kyleam.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 21:26:57 +0800
> 
> BTW, that means I can keep fixing regressions from Emacs 28 in the X
> code, right?

Of course.  This is the main purpose of the release cycle.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>,  bzg@gnu.org,  larsi@gnus.org,
>   emacs-devel@gnu.org,  yantar92@posteo.net,  kyle@kyleam.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 08:51:41 -0500
> 
> >> I think we should not cut the branch until bug#59183 is fixed.  I run
> >> into that serious crash every few days.
> > We will not release Emacs 29.1 with that bug, that's for sure.  But I
> > don't want to wait for its solution before cutting the release branch,
> > since we can continue working on it after the branching.
> 
> FWIW, a fix is in the works.  It doesn't require drastic changes (a few
> new functions in itree.c, admittedly, but basically nothing changed
> outside of it).

Thanks, this is great news.

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Bastien]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> From the Emacs POV, what matters is that you
> don't add new features to Org that is part of the branch after the
> branching point.  

Okay, thanks.

Org 9.6 comes with new features compared to Org 9.5.5.  We will do 
our best to release 9.6 before the end of this month, and then fix
bugs from 9.6 to 9.6.1 in the release branch.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Tentative release schedule for Emacs 29.1

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Bastien <bzg@gnu.org>
> Cc: larsi@gnus.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org,  yantar92@gmail.com,  kyle@kyleam.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 15:53:56 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > From the Emacs POV, what matters is that you
> > don't add new features to Org that is part of the branch after the
> > branching point.  
> 
> Okay, thanks.
> 
> Org 9.6 comes with new features compared to Org 9.5.5.  We will do 
> our best to release 9.6 before the end of this month, and then fix
> bugs from 9.6 to 9.6.1 in the release branch.

SGTM, thanks.