From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Keep network security info buffers after use Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2023 14:34:07 +0200 Message-ID: <83jzpaid6o.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87plz4irev.fsf@red-bean.com> <834jggk4t9.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7eoe7f1.fsf@red-bean.com> <83ttofifaf.fsf@gnu.org> <87frzzkqmc.fsf@red-bean.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27088"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 19 13:35:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rFZJd-0006jQ-Si for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 13:35:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rFZIr-0002Kz-SX; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:34:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rFZIq-0002Kb-3H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:34:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rFZIp-0003Il-JA; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 07:34:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=p92TJWmcROCFItWW8wR6UTq3tVLg4VwWLWu69KchjZw=; b=MkMU1QeJiExt VxD+wR6pk687kHkRxDtBjq49KSXzSvk9lK2gOWg/ijZy+usCnyZ+MPGPtaabx4vZj8f3bfKRWtAiZ LEhdqWM3fVTSJGe8gzzd4JXHwWwvVmkpRndfeFriROpyRq8IUTEdUnzIJyuqfgRe+j+RI0bU4Kejh vwdC+smvGe9zWNNb+mB/YQmMVIRkYnsfvLNjyA3yIRIn+x1kQsD1ztPCeEgv8SKNtM6Ifa/QvQXXN FG66EiaqMoABDLMZg/Le0Q/DJnNIQCjJOngbBOOM1bgpx6inXnUzbv1pQN3HUg2Fssbh0F2U4l4fa 0i+aEz6pcH4cllWtsa+NFg==; In-Reply-To: <87frzzkqmc.fsf@red-bean.com> (message from Karl Fogel on Mon, 18 Dec 2023 18:00:59 -0600) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314001 Archived-At: > From: Karl Fogel > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2023 18:00:59 -0600 > > On 18 Dec 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >We don't advertise that key for a reason, so I don't think this > >is a good idea. > > Okay. I'm curious what that reason is, if you have time to > explain, but I'm fine accepting this decision as a given. The reason is simple: what you see is a side effect of how the user interaction was implemented in this case. Look at the code, and you will see it clearly. If we ever decide to change the details of the implementation, C-r will most probably stop working. We don't want to advertise "features" that can disappear without advance warning. > My problem with Andreas's idea... > > >How about adding a command to (re-)display the cert info? > > ...is that I don't see how the user is likely to know about the > existence of this new command. We can have a reference to it in the doc string(s) of commands and variables which are related. There's also the various Apropos commands and the manual. More generally, are you saying that any feature that is not directly into user's face is not discoverable? If so, I don't think I agree. We go a long way in Emacs to provide discovery features and cross-references, for this very reason, and anyway it is impractical to expect that ever obscure option will always be staring the user in the face. And even if it were, how many users will immediately know that entering recursive edit will allow them to see the stuff you wanted to see? How many users even know about recursive edit in Emacs?