From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:16:58 +0300 Message-ID: <83iq5oliet.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276334240 19360 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 09:17:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 11:17:18 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMq2-0002gH-0D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:17:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51941 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONMq1-0002kQ-A8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:17:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41546 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONMps-0002jL-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:17:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMpr-0007YV-TH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:17:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:47892) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMpq-0007Y3-0p; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W000009IQ2X00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:17:01 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.119.36]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W00KRZ9S99770@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:17:00 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125789 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:47:41 -0400 > > > (I am still dubious about decoupling the arrow keys and C-f/C-b > > keybindings. Maybe we should provide a separate set of keybindings > > instead.) > > It's actually not really decoupled. > It just switches between "C-f = right and C-b = left" and > "C-f = left and C-b = right" based on the paragraph's direction. > Which seems eminently meaningful since the associating between > "forward" and "right" is just based on our usual convention of > writing L2R. Exactly. > Now addmitedly, the particular place where the choice between the two > forms of coupling is made is up for discussion: it could be based on the > direction of text underneath point (basically, make the arrow move > visually rather than logically) There's already infrastructure in the display engine to support such a feature. Every glyph we produce for display is marked with its bidirectional level. We can base all kinds of feature on that in the future if we decide. > I don't have a clear preference, but I think that the current choice > is pretty good compromise between "no need for customization, > auto-adjusts to mixes of L2R and R2L buffers" and "still move in > logical rather than visual order". That's also my hope. And until and unless we hear otherwise from users of bidirectional scripts, I don't recommend considering any changes in that.