From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: ST <smntov@gmail.com>
Cc: Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr
Subject: Re: Use Emacs' default value of "bidi-paragraph-direction" in orgmode
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:10:50 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83in6htv6t.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1529238598.1901.83.camel@gmail.com> (message from ST on Sun, 17 Jun 2018 15:29:58 +0300)
> From: ST <smntov@gmail.com>
> Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>, Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 15:29:58 +0300
>
> 1. Do you agree that the vast majority of all the documents in human
> history were/are EITHER ltr OR rtl? Meaning that mixed ltr/rtl texts are
> minority that we should not take care of...
> 2. Do you agree that for pure ltr texts org headings should appear to
> the left and for pure rtl texts org headings should appear to the right?
>
> If you agree with both (1) and (2) - we should put nil as default value,
> as this will enable (2).
I agree with (1) and (2), but your conclusion doesn't follow from
that. The value nil means that the base directionality of
_each_paragraph_ is determined dynamically. It does NOT mean that the
whole buffer will have the same directionality for all of its
paragraphs. With nil, some paragraphs could have RTL direction, and
others LTR. Worse, headings could have one direction and their bodies
another. A single character at the beginning of a paragraph might
change that paragraph's base direction. You don't want that with your
users.
> I'm so eager to change the defaults because we start a project where we
> have many non_technically_savvy Windows-people who need to edit rtl org
> files in Emacs (which is a challenge on its own). So we want the
> experience to be as smooth as possible, but right now rtl users are
> disadvantaged for no reason (as with nil - BOTH ltr AND rtl views can be
> achieved).
Users of RTL languages should have bidi-paragraph-direction in Org
buffers set to right-to-left, not to nil. The value of nil will
sometimes cause the heading to appear at the left while the body
appears on the right, or vice versa, which is the worst of all worlds.
I see no reason why non-technically-savvy people couldn't learn that
they need to set a variable when they start editing text of a known
directionality. That's what MS-Word users do all the time, right?
And if you want to make it even easier for them, make a site-wide init
file they will all use.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-06-17 13:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-06-15 10:32 Use Emacs' default value of "bidi-paragraph-direction" in orgmode ST
2018-06-15 14:05 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2018-06-17 6:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-06-17 12:29 ` ST
2018-06-17 13:10 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2018-06-17 16:47 ` ST
2018-06-17 17:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
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