From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50950: "(emacs) Mark" should contrast to "selecting" text in other editors Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 17:11:58 +0300 Message-ID: <83ilxxgitt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83pmsocyze.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilygc5e6.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31305"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50950@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 16 16:13:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkQv-0007wH-N3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 16:13:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46800 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkQu-0001Ul-Kd for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:13:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36250) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkQo-0001UO-5H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:13:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:59478) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkQn-0001Sl-TQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:13:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkQn-0004WE-Od for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:13:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 14:13:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50950 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 50950-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50950.163439352417304 (code B ref 50950); Sat, 16 Oct 2021 14:13:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Oct 2021 14:12:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkPs-0004V2-3a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:12:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkPq-0004UZ-Ex for 50950@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:12:02 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49568) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkPl-0000l0-3z; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:11:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4262 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mbkPk-0004LD-NW; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:11:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 16 Oct 2021 09:04:38 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:217373 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 09:04:38 -0400 > Cc: 50950@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > As I said, rewriting this overview text is probably a good idea, so no > > argument here. But the new text should still explain how our region > > is different in subtle but important ways from what people see in > > other editors. Would you like to propose such a rewording? > > I have made an attempt in the attached patch. I wrote this a week or > two ago, and returned to it again, and with fresh eyes I only find some > minor touch-ups to be made. I'm interested to hear what you all think. Are you happy with the result? My main problem with this text is that it says there are important differences, but with a single exception leaves it to the reader to deduce or guess which parts of the description are about these differences and which ones just describe related issues and features. Another, more minor problem is that the text starts under the assumption that when you say "selected text", the reader immediately understands what you mean, and that is neither a given nor a good style, IME: it is always better to have some introductory sentence that provides context. For example: Emacs, like many other applications, lets you select some arbitrary part of the buffer text and invoke commands that operate on such @dfn{selected text}. In Emacs, we call the selected text @dfn{the region}; its handling is very similar to that of selected text in other programs, but there are also important differences. As for differences themselves, I'd suggest an explicit itemized list, first naming them and then explaining each difference in some detail, including cross-references to sections which describe them in more detail. The differences I think we should describe here are: . the "mark" and its relation to region (after all, the chapter is called "The Mark and the Region") . the fact that region can be active or inactive, and the basic difference between these two . the fact that some commands operate on region if it's active, and some even if it's inactive (the main difference here is that in Emacs many more commands are region-sensitive than in other programs, where it basically only supports copy/paste) . maybe also that we have some unusual ways of extending the region The main challenge in describing these is how to describe enough, but not too much (because the full details are elsewhere, and this is just an introduction). Thanks.