From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#400: 23.0.60; C-h v should pick up lispified name in Customize Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 21:00:32 +0300 Message-ID: <83ilxq8dhb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <007f01c8cca9$3cbbf770$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <875z8rum4k.fsf@gnus.org> <83o8mjnf5n.fsf@gnu.org> <83fssuany1.fsf@gnu.org> <83pmry8fv4.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31555"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 400@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 21 20:02:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcOU-0007wT-0O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 20:02:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54856 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcOS-0002Tk-N8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:02:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41640) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcOB-0002Tb-2p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:02:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46954) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcOA-0006sQ-QE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:02:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcOA-0008QT-Ea for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:02:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 400 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 400-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B400.163483926632304 (code B ref 400); Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:02:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 400) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2021 18:01:06 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58500 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcNF-0008Oy-UC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:01:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44002) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcNE-0008OL-4T for 400@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:01:04 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58602) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcN6-0005oP-Fr; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:00:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1150 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdcMs-0008LG-S8; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 14:00:56 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:50:34 -0700) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:217792 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:50:34 -0700 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 400@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Yes, because the actual customization happens in the variable's > > buffer. So why is that a problem, again? > > No, you can customize it directly from `customize-group'. When you do, I'm okay with fully expanding the doc string of the variable which you are customizing from the groups buffer. Would that solve the issue at hand? > >> But users might still want an easy way to get the variable into the help > >> buffer. > > > > They have RET and mouse-1 click, don't they? Isn't that enough? > > Where in the customize buffer do I click or type RET to get > `describe-variable'? You get the full doc string by typing RET on the "More" button. > > I say we have enough features to allow anyone to do what they want, > > and I see no reason to complicate commands for the marginal gains (if > > at all) that you describe. > > Well, it's a quality of life feature, so of course I'm okay without it. > > But I'm not sure what you mean by "complicating commands" given that the > proposal AFAIU is to introduce a specific `customize-describe-variable' > bound to `C-h v' that handles also the unlispified names. How would you implement that without complicating the command? The unlispified name is just several English words. Why do we need to make Emacs so much more complex for the benefit of an obscure use case, which already has more than one existing solution? > > (Shouldn't there be some kind of "statute of limitations" on bugs that > > were filed too long ago, and have not gathered enough consensus for > > all that time?) > > I believe the activity we are engaged in right now is currently as good > as it gets. FWIW, if I had my way, I would for sure close bugs and > feature requests far more enthusiastically than is being done now. Please do, then. IMNSHO, a proposal for a minor feature that exists for more than a decade, and was discussed at length without generating any reasonable consensus, should be closed as wontfix. > For example, "wontfix" could also be used meaning: "yes, it's an issue > but it's not one we consider worth fixing, if you care enough send a > patch and we will reconsider". Exactly.