From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#55163: 29.0.50; master 4a1f69ebca (TICKS . HZ) for current-time broke lsp-mode Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 19:43:08 +0300 Message-ID: <83ilqp5hlv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87sfpxxyvb.fsf@3-191.divsi.unimi.it> <87zgk5jtm6.fsf@gnus.org> <87o80kj2q1.fsf@gnus.org> <878rroi5a8.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1zo9n3o.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1zof944.fsf@gnus.org> <83wnf89mcj.fsf@gnu.org> <0a39a220-6298-8ed4-87bd-414702cd9b57@cs.ucla.edu> <83ee1facp0.fsf@gnu.org> <87tuab543p.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmky99hm.fsf@gnu.org> <56e6d32c-7583-dbd9-85ee-e43d32a6feb1@cs.ucla.edu> <83mtg17qxs.fsf@gnu.org> <3bcf4527-426a-b3ae-317a-a9a0e521fc6a@cs.ucla.edu> <83pmkx5kfn.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15246"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, v.pupillo@gmail.com, 55163@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 01 18:44:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCg7-0003ml-Jt for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 18:44:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60936 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCg6-00061c-4t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:44:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56166) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCfy-00061O-7l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:44:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40159) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCfx-0005yv-VP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:44:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCfx-0007Kw-Tm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:44:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 16:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55163 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 55163-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55163.165142339028129 (code B ref 55163); Sun, 01 May 2022 16:44:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 55163) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2022 16:43:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34054 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCf8-0007Jc-Af for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:43:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCf6-0007JQ-9I for 55163@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:43:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40098) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCf0-0005x7-BW; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:43:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5WzyC/owPZgdilLTT7wtaRIM9o222oP1Hxuuc2AxaOM=; b=I/PB40sY1AHd RiWCVg01TB2b1Ir8pqztBflyzjjd5zmP58xdwm1Zzc/DMLvJuwRouh/QPvCICNUI14IOT/nfUHMs6 WmOUxjYDN9MNkTRBzlLJNQmNf5FLrJeNZ3DXagORDpQXGrbah5rL5wuZz6U/SQrHXwxudx3mHtXUw LNYO4aVNyQxDqZUNd2i2atE49o3UA+PkUKvieBJMjVZDRdiroBu0BnX3J+qeGpaR9BdGI1m1uB0zX Uaxv0Cs9NSUWIAar4YSyHOknIL/TC92sxwy23vSAxCur7p7a8wx3z/QROE8fiyYMe1wNDlAGnPh7t PVRMd3ycGwnSUwNPiA67JQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3379 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nlCez-0002gz-Qp; Sun, 01 May 2022 12:43:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Paul Eggert on Sun, 1 May 2022 09:17:09 -0700) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:231170 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 09:17:09 -0700 > Cc: 55163@debbugs.gnu.org, v.pupillo@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org > From: Paul Eggert > > On 5/1/22 08:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Out of these, only the 3rd one could qualify, because it's the only > > one where performance counts. > > I'm sure other places can be found like that. And even one such > occurrence can be enough motivation. No, one such occurrence won't be enough, not in my book. > > And then those issues will have to be handled by Lisp application > > programmers? > > No, not at all. We could write the code in Elisp and put it into > files.el or wherever. The point is that this sort of thing need not and > should not be written in C. What's the difference, for the purpose of this discussion, between having the code in C and having it in internal Lisp functions? The important conclusion is the same: no need for public APIs that expose individual attributes. > >> erc-server-send-ping, progress-reporter-do-update, timer-event-handler. > >> I'm sure there are others. > > > > We don't need wallclock time for those, only elapsed time since some > > instant, right? When elapsed time is used, the monotonicity issue > > never arises. > > I'm not sure what is meant by the distinction between a monotonic clock > and an elapsed-time clock. Either way, current-time does not suffice. The distinction is that the resolution of the wallclock time doesn't matter. > GNU/Linux has many types of monotonic clocks. We don't need to expose > them all to the user. But Emacs apps do need at least one such clock, > and POSIX's CLOCK_MONOTONIC is a portable way to get one. What we have established is that Emacs apps need to be able to measure time intervals, not that they need a monotonic clock. Functions for measuring time intervals can be built on functions that return monotonic clock time, but they can also be built on other bases that have very little with actual time stamps.