From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 09:02:05 +0300 Message-ID: <83ildr6qhu.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkfirbl.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38619"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 20 08:02:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppNNK-0009mP-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:02:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppNMl-0008K3-NU; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:01:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppNMf-0008Gv-HN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:01:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppNMe-0005cE-Mz; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:01:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=OIO1YYnLtu9mkwOMUtfeF35M/tEIwmSDlEvmEyVYVhE=; b=I+HInPhGs4Bhm6PBf5/Y b3y93rWzNT2YNAxU6xj0CzvOCV55QssRN5H85pWzvNofKtHHIJ/GZp6VICl7j08ZS0y42E2x7V3S+ xuOwUHHwHOsgVuL/sahEaqsnzqhOH4nGV75DrVjjqSJadFuSsGDHK2b6Vfh1RF8r9yLR7eCfB118H oC+pIs88qnL3aBpUAgttwoYmQnIYzeqElbQ93adfp9jcdlcF+CBsZrZ8+qAOAcAm1XdYlCTuV38FM h8j5sP4te4foLfxm4LOsnwVoFM682lGFzUHp2C0dC+3D45bAaH/0qQf+9pnvT3FIZ0o5jB8Kruevp yJcbzcU71GdUHw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppNMe-0005Xc-8G; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 02:01:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <871qkfirbl.fsf@web.de> (arne_bab@web.de) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305487 Archived-At: > From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" > Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:40:35 +0200 > > > Specifically, users of Emacs 28 and older, who had Eglot installed, > > and expect Eglot to be automatically updated upon Emacs startup > > whenever a new Eglot version is available, will now have their > > expectations broken after they upgrade to Emacs 29, because Eglot is > > now a built-in package, and package.el won't by default upgrade a > > built-in package. > … > > So there's a dilemma here: which of the two groups of users to break? > > Not updating eglot until the next Emacs release shouldn’t cause breakage > in any other packages, right? No, it shouldn't. With the obvious exception of the breakage that is already part of the current Emacs release, which we somehow failed to detect and fix before releasing it. > Except if a more modern eglot is a dependency of a non-built-in package. Right. > I think that’s what I would prefer: I would treat being pulled into > Emacs as a stabilization step that switches the package from being on > the latest version to being at the version in Emacs or the minimum > version required by dependencies — if that version is higher than the > version in Emacs. Basically minimize the distance from the Emacs > release. AFAIU, that is what will happen with Emacs 29 when it is released. But things might change in Emacs 30, as we are currently discussing what needs to be done to better support updating core packages.