From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64138: 28.2; C-x ) won't accept the universal argument Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:05:11 +0300 Message-ID: <83ilblni8o.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83fs6pp8l1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26662"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 64138@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Al Petrofsky Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 18 13:06:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqEV-0006k6-4O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:06:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqEN-0005gj-B0; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:06:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqEM-0005gT-Bf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:06:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqEM-0005Ac-1p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:06:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqEL-0002uR-Qd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:06:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 11:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64138 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 64138-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64138.168708631811122 (code B ref 64138); Sun, 18 Jun 2023 11:06:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 64138) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jun 2023 11:05:18 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53263 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqDd-0002tJ-SU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:05:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46488) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqDb-0002t1-9H for 64138@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:05:16 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqDV-0004qU-JM; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:05:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=gwZtBmnKzYw1hNfz+Y9TVP7zBxeT2bwIv7A94M83j4g=; b=KRR/A+d9S7LhFSBpBk3Z jMNKl3DSq292M4oKtcHUcIjD4TDgsf/IuLf/uKHTA8xTNHnR42pZmYNtH1KPmu2WdOakxxpzbfHMg jBtGrd53HSJi/jLJXZfqGefaZ7vjNHtdU2E+1nl0aDTV3Ui3MAdNNdia/9FbXzztNbFUMOpVEA9Ox MmWYQCLMsTTtCQPdVHdUfGb8BJ8JBQ6tgkfbB6jKAVT8X3jIKYmM+NCTmXgNs/bN6T+xga0KBIxM4 f6/atC5UR2LHg0/HUWzjNbewzMe6GJXZ+3HFCUdCT+5sl2wkmTi5Ed33dt8wwP9FhMXSQCKPAWzSz bJfId+Ol07jylg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqDV-0004kR-3Q; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:05:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Al Petrofsky on Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:00:44 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:263620 Archived-At: > From: Al Petrofsky > Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:00:44 -0400 > Cc: Stefan Monnier , 64138@debbugs.gnu.org > > > These commands always required a numeric prefix argument, and that > > is how they are documented. So just "C-u" is invalid, you should > > use "C-u 4" instead. > > Hmm, kmacro-end-macro's doc string copied this paragraph verbatim from > end-kbd-macro: > > With numeric arg, repeat macro now that many times, > counting the definition just completed as the first repetition. > An argument of zero means repeat until error. > > So you're saying that end-kbd-macro was always documented wrong, and > should have pointed out that C-u works? No, I'm saying that just "C-u" is not a "numeric argument". > I take the manual to be > saying that C-u meaning C-u 4 is the norm, and it is the functions > that are exceptions to that norm that need to clearly document that > exception: > > A few commands treat a plain ‘C-u’ differently from an ordinary > argument. A few others may treat an argument of just a minus sign > differently from an argument of −1. These unusual cases are described > when they come up; they exist to make an individual command more > convenient, and they are documented in that command’s documentation > string. Yes, which is why it would be good to make these commands behave closer to the general principle that the manual describes. I'm just saying that they never did until now. Which is completely legitimate, since what these commands do is not easily and obviously categorized as repeatable operations: the argument makes them repeat some part of what the command does. Anyway, I think we agree that it would be a good extension, so no need to argue any longer. I'd just want to hear from Stefan whether we are missing some subtlety here.