From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 15:07:07 +0300 Message-ID: <83il8fppck.fsf@gnu.org> References: <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20294"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, rms@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, arthur.miller@live.com, acm@muc.de, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-tangents@gnu.org To: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 12 14:07:50 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qg2BH-0004za-H3 for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 14:07:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg2B7-00017m-3r; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:07:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg2B1-00014R-TH for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:07:32 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qg2B0-0000oO-M8; Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:07:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=Xu7nQr/4RiPOtHDoWmI43HuHiAdOSClmGV4E80SluzY=; b=IQlhSOz+mPEjHyD1IC03 +ofQEYTWwfSrTgfevWZ07b+QaDR/aMpgVpEFJyVkpsbBILb9zeLaHJh9EOsvA3+UIkGxgEK4CeIb2 YAUz7r9e/lBWyjPJKCAbNr0/4v2FILCHZrZwfc9PM4v7RHI+nO3r2NKF9mV6TgViFiEugNPdiP0Po kJI87b/ZOGuAwPo4Xx+oqRgtLsOFZsoQhXYL/iqDyG5OSPh7TRAW5UO8fUEhHnTeQHa0CswN6OoV+ pzJbNptt8wRDR0tAX03TIltcU/Uv3i1NGF2rXwZU/TaF4ZLxTw4VC5CPUp7M9VwQ8wq6s1QFJxoeI KQWoqe2J55mteQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6llmann?= on Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:38:00 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:1065 Archived-At: [Redirected to emacs-tangents] > From: Gerd Möllmann > Cc: Richard Stallman , Drew Adams , > arthur.miller@live.com, acm@muc.de, luangruo@yahoo.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:38:00 +0200 > > "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > > > But it could be done. There is a technical path forward to it. > > Which would have to cope with buffer-local bindings. Right. And the display code. And text en/decoding. And input queue. And faces. Etc. etc. -- these are all written in C, but are full of Lisp data structures and calls into Lisp, so separating them is anything but easy or even straightforward. People who have enough talents, knowledge, and energy to do this kind of job will be better off, and will serve the community better, if they design an Emacs differently, taking into consideration the main lessons we've learned. That "neo-Emacs" could have a mode whereby it worked in a way compatible with the current Emacs, so that people who must run the old applications could run them without changes. But it should be based on different, more modern architectural decisions. Handling of buffer text, GC, the display engine, threads -- all these and more needs to be rethought and preferably replaced with more modern solutions, to avoid bumping into the same limitations right from the get-go.