From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:24:51 +0300 Message-ID: <83hbl8li1o.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276334767 20708 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 09:26:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:26:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: James Cloos Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 11:26:05 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMya-00067X-NT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:26:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44662 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONMyZ-0005Rd-Tw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:26:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49256 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONMyQ-0005Qf-DS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:25:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMyP-0000Ul-A4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:25:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:58050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONMyN-0000U7-E4; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 05:25:51 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W004009MYCL00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:24:51 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.119.36]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W00MSQA5EGOA0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:24:51 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125790 Archived-At: > From: James Cloos > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org > Copyright: Copyright 2009 James Cloos > OpenPGP-Fingerprint: E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:29:31 -0400 > > In gedit C-f and C-b move forward and backward logically, whereas LEFT > and RIGHT move left and right visually. Please be more specific, after reading my message where I presented the definitions relevant to this thread. Emacs currently implements only the logical-mode motion, both with C-f/C-b and with arrow keys. > In seamonkey, in a web-page's text input box, both the arrow keys and > the C-b and C-f keys move visually. A useless mode, if you ask me. It might be good enough for a Web browser, but it's useless in a text editor. That is because, with visual-mode only, you have no good way of marking the region (which must always be marked in logical buffer order). Marking region and features based on the region are so basic in Emacs that without logical-order motion keys Emacs will be useless. > In gvim, both the h and l keys and the arrow keys move visually. Please don't consider Vim a bidi-aware application. All Vim does is simple reversal of text on the screen. It has no idea what to reverse and what not, and neither does it support UAX#9. It's small wonder it can only support visual-order movement. > In Openoffice.org, the arrow keys move logically. Again, please be more specific: what does the left arrow key do in a R2L paragraph? Does it go backwards in the text, eventually ending up at the first text character, or does it go forward?