From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:38:17 +0300 Message-ID: <83hbl8jb2u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83eigclgf0.fsf@gnu.org> <89C16A134A024399A06EFE296DC6916F@us.oracle.com> <83r5kcjkpp.fsf@gnu.org> <83ljakjdv2.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276371512 30005 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 19:38:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 21:38:31 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONWXD-0000ci-2a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:38:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57524 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONWXC-0002HF-D4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:38:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51272 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONWX6-0002H5-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:38:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONWX4-0005Lr-JZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:62851) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONWX4-0005Lc-Cs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3X008002774900@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:38:17 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.88.125]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3X003FS2JSSZB0@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:38:17 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125840 Archived-At: > From: Lennart Borgman > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:49:04 +0200 > Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >=20 > >> From what I read it seems to me that "logical" should mean "huma= n > >> reading order", not the buffer character order. > > > > These two orders are identical. =C2=A0The reason is that people t= ype text > > in the order they read it. =C2=A0"Logical order" just means we st= ore text > > in the same order as it is read and typed. > > > >> I guess they are the same here, but that is an implementation de= tail > > > > No, it's not an implementation detail. =C2=A0Emacs stores text in= files, > > and those files also use the logical order. =C2=A0As soon as text= is saved > > on a file, the order of characters is not longer internal to Emac= s. >=20 > Is not this is precisely what makes it an implementation detail? No.