From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:02:29 +0300 Message-ID: <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16503"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 30 11:03:12 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVryC-00044Q-Mr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:03:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58288 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVryB-0006Pl-0n for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:03:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57018) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVry1-0006PV-V6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:39903) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVry1-0000cR-Nk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVry1-0007A9-Jz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:03:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50895 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 50895-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50895.163299254927496 (code B ref 50895); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 09:02:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxV-00079P-Ad for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxT-00079C-9E for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36646) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxN-00005g-Tb; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:21 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3352 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxN-0008WF-GE; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:215953 Archived-At: > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300 > Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Then the default value for `show-paren-global-modes' could be > >> `(prog-mode)' or `(prog-mode text-mode)', or even `(not > >> special-mode)', depending on one's opinions about whether > >> `show-paren-mode' makes sense for prose. That would cover both this > >> bug as well as providing an easy way for users to customize the major > >> modes where `show-paren-mode' is enabled (this is already possible > >> with `show-paren-local-mode', but it'd be a bit simpler with > >> `show-paren-global-modes'). > > > > Yes, that makes sense to me. > > The new var, if we add it now, should probably be just t by default. > > To avoid changing the behavior for those who customized show-paren-mode > for many years, and yet allow an easy customization point for others who > can by annoyed with the change. > > I don't know how to avoid changing the behavior for existing users of > this mode, unless we make the variable itself take different values (can > we?), and have it used instead of adding show-paren-global-modes. IMNSHO, it would be wrong for us to do that now. show-paren-mode in its traditional global implementation was tested for many years by many users, and we have a good understanding of what it does. Turning it on by default makes that well-understood feature available to everyone. The problems with that should be minor, mostly related to personal preferences, as always with defaults. By contrast, the suggestion here is to turn on by default something we never tried before. While the chances of it to introduce some serious regressions are probably not high, they are definitely higher than simply turning on the mode globally, something we already did. It makes little sense to me to argue for a long time about a feature, have a user poll about its turning on, then turn on some different feature by default. That's not a healthy way of changing defaults in Emacs, and it runs a higher risk of causing unintended problems. There's absolutely no justification for that. "Perfect is the enemy of good." There's nothing particularly wrong with the current global settings, except that some people don't like the results. That some don't like it is expected: that's why this can be customized to turn the feature off. But I see no real reasons to complicate the mode or invent new untested aspects of it, just because a few people dislike it or have their doubts or ideas about how to turn it on/off selectively. So I don't think we should change anything in this by default. If someone really wants a way of enabling this more selectively, that's fine, but then this new behavior should not be the default, because that's not what we decided and not what we asked the users to provide the feedback about.