From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 10:03:11 +0200 Message-ID: <83fvp5xzk0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup> <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> <83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org> <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu> <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> <52C25D07.80808@cs.ucla.edu> <8338l91l2t.fsf@gnu.org> <52C4C95C.2010905@cs.ucla.edu> <837gajyrq1.fsf@gnu.org> <52C4F008.5060003@cs.ucla.edu> <83zjnextyg.fsf@gnu.org> <52C5BDD1.2050009@cs.ucla.edu> <83ppoaxfu6.fsf@gnu.org> <52C607DA.3090009@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388736252 15264 80.91.229.3 (3 Jan 2014 08:04:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 08:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 03 09:04:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzjt-0002m3-5F for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 09:04:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48561 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzjs-0008O2-OK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:04:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58513) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzjl-0008LW-OP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:04:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzjf-00014F-C9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:04:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:45124) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzjf-00013Z-8X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:04:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyzje-0002gc-KM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:04:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2014 08:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16292.138873619810253 (code B ref 16292); Fri, 03 Jan 2014 08:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2014 08:03:18 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyziu-0002fF-1O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:03:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:42064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyziq-0002f5-7M for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 03:03:14 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MYT00B00FM87O00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 10:03:10 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MYT00BAFFPA6530@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 03 Jan 2014 10:03:10 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <52C607DA.3090009@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82852 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 16:44:10 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > These are very rare (and I would argue will look ugly any > > way you typeset them). > > They're not that rare: for example, I count 949 info lines > containing both straight and the curly apostrophes, with > many opportunities for confusion. That's rare in my book: just the 2 Emacs manuals weigh in at 124800 lines. > ‘C-x '’ may look ugly on some displays, but it's typically legible, > and it's definitely easier to grok than 'C-x ''. We've been living with `C-x'' forever, so I don't see a serious problem here. And if we really care, we can customize OPEN_QUOTE_SYMBOL in Texinfo 5. > > I don't see the problem: just don't edit any letters, only edit > > apostrophes, quotes, and arrows. What am I missing? > > Info generates lots of special characters like that, in > response to ASCII markup. From the unibyte reader's point > of view, why should the output of "``", "@quoteleft{}", > "@expansion{}", "@result{}", etc. be converted from mojibake > to ASCII, while the output of "--", "@bullet{}", "@minus{}", > "@equiv{}", "@~n", etc. remains mojibake? I don't see any > systematic principle to distinguish between the two sets of > characters. The systematic principle I propose is to convert everything except letters, i.e. only punctuation and special characters. > >> The point of cp-ascii is to not put mojibake on unibyte users' > >> screens, so why not fix all the mojibake while we're at it? > > > > To make it more acceptable to UTF-8 locales. > > UTF-8 locales work just fine (actually, better) with the > original UTF-8 characters, so it's not a priority for > cp-ascii's output to be more acceptable to UTF-8 locales. It would be a priority if we decide to make that cp-ascii'd output the default.