From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: RCS, again: another removed functionality: undo last-checkin
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:54:12 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83fv1u8ivv.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <560D899A.4080805@yandex.ru>
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org, stephen@xemacs.org, dak@gnu.org,
> emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 22:29:30 +0300
>
> On 10/01/2015 08:52 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> > I indeed think that features should rarely be removed, only added.
>
> Then you must be prepared that at certain point the cost of improving
> Emacs will be too much for anyone to do anything of significance to it.
That's a very distant possibility. In general, most features are only
very loosely coupled, so the complexity increases very slowly,
certainly sub-linearly. I don't see why we should be afraid of this
happening any time soon.
> > Yes, but different VCSes have different internal logic, so something
> > might make sense with RCS, but not with Git, or vice versa. That's
> > the crux of the problem we are discussing, I think, so the question is
> > whether a feature must make sense for every back-end for it to be
> > considered as sensible.
>
> It may be decided on a case-by-case basis, but the question is rather
> whether it *could* be decided at all. The exact criterion, "make sense
> for at least a half of all backends", or "make sense in at least one of
> the modern backends", is up for discussion.
I think the popularity of a back-end should also be taken into
account. SCCS, for example, is probably not very used. We removed
vc-arch some time ago, for the same reasons.
> > I think there's a better alternative: start a new front end, which
> > will only support a subset of back-ends. Then the elders can
> > peacefully continue using the old front-end, which will more or less
> > stop being developed, only maintained whenever some of the
> > infrastructure changes absolutely require that.
>
> It's an option indeed, though one that requires a larger investment of
> time
If it requires more time, then the situation with the existing
front-end is not too bad. When it's really bad, forking a new
front-end should be much easier.
> And what if we make some unfortunate decision WRT to features when
> creating the second front-end, too? Wait a few years and create a
> third one?
We should try not to make unfortunate decisions.
> It also assumes that the set of backend commands can be static without
> incurring any cost.
For old back-ends that no longer see significant development,
definitely.
> > Muscle memory is what stopping them. It's a powerful thing.
>
> It's easier to change than a big codebase full of features one is
> absolutely not allowed to break.
Yes, because someone else needs to change ;-)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-10-01 19:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-09-20 14:33 RCS, again: another removed functionality: undo last-checkin Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 14:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-20 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-20 15:39 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-21 3:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-25 7:53 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 15:40 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-20 19:59 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 20:01 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-20 23:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 6:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 7:25 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 7:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 8:13 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 8:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 8:27 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 8:58 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 9:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 10:18 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 10:21 ` Bastian Beischer
2015-09-22 6:56 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-22 11:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22 22:02 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-22 22:49 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-09-23 6:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 7:18 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-23 8:28 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-23 9:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 22:09 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-23 5:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 6:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 13:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 15:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 15:13 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-23 15:31 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-09-23 14:38 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-23 14:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 15:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-23 15:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 17:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30 2:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 4:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30 6:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 8:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-30 8:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 11:35 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 12:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-01 2:22 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-01 2:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 2:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 6:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 7:17 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-02 7:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-03 1:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 6:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-03 1:37 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-30 14:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 2:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 19:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 19:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 20:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 20:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
[not found] ` <83a8s28gun.fsf@gnu.org>
2015-10-01 21:01 ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-01 21:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 21:01 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 6:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 6:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 7:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 12:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 2:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 2:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 2:24 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 3:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 7:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 12:54 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 13:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 14:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 14:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 14:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-02 15:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-10-02 16:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 6:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-30 11:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-30 14:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 2:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 7:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 12:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 13:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 17:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 17:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-01 19:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 19:54 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2015-10-01 20:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-01 23:55 ` Drew Adams
2015-10-02 0:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 6:16 ` Drew Adams
2015-10-02 2:27 ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-02 4:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-02 4:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 19:03 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-23 22:12 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-25 8:29 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-26 1:10 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-23 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-25 8:30 ` Uwe Brauer
2015-09-23 6:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 13:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-21 13:59 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 18:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-21 14:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 16:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 17:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 17:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 19:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-21 19:30 ` David Kastrup
2015-09-21 19:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-21 19:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 0:39 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22 6:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-22 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 18:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-22 19:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 5:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 6:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-23 14:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-23 22:08 ` Richard Stallman
2015-09-21 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 0:26 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-09-22 6:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-22 12:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-09-22 6:32 ` Steinar Bang
2015-09-20 17:09 ` Steinar Bang
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