From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp primitives and their calling of the change hooks Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 11:05:11 +0200 Message-ID: <83fu7j9x2w.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180103124543.GA5435@ACM> <20180104155111.GB6846@ACM> <20180104211154.GC6846@ACM> <838tdcbxrb.fsf@gnu.org> <83lghc9j62.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515229432 10916 195.159.176.226 (6 Jan 2018 09:03:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 09:03:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 06 10:03:48 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkOC-000246-Oc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:03:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55537 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkQB-0003Ay-U6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:05:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58965) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkQ1-00039U-MK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:05:34 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkPx-0002cX-Mu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:05:33 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49509) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkPx-0002cR-At; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:05:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2017 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eXkPw-0004Ta-Pb; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:05:29 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 05 Jan 2018 17:28:15 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221637 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 17:28:15 -0500 > > > Maybe I don't understand what are we trying to accomplish with these > > changes, and that's why I fail to see why the proposed changes are for > > the better. > > The current text basically says "don't rely on them being balanced" but > doesn't say what the coder can rely on if he wants to share information > between a-c-f and b-c-f. > > The new text tries to be sufficiently loose that if Emacs doesn't obey > it it's actually a bug, yet sufficiently precise that an Elisp coder > can make use of it to reliably share information between a-c-f and > b-c-f. Can you describe a practical situation where an Elisp coder could use the new text to some practical benefit, i.e. to change her implementation to be better/more resilient (as opposed to just enhancing her understanding of this stuff)? I guess I don't see how such practical benefits would be possible with the new text.