From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 23:01:32 +0300 Message-ID: <83ftyail7n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <7bed1f76-5bae-44cb-9b22-206b513043be@default> <83d0tfkj77.fsf@gnu.org> <1c393214-c186-4760-9a37-e0450c946446@default> <83zhwji4hx.fsf@gnu.org> <20180915102016.GA15443@ACM> <20180915194419.bty3fzs5tnjez3pq@Ergus> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537041686 7241 195.159.176.226 (15 Sep 2018 20:01:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:01:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hw@adminart.net, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 15 22:01:21 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gko-0001iK-Ce for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 22:01:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56551 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gmu-00049s-Fs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:03:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36008) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1GmB-00049X-8T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:02:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1Gm7-0008U3-9T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:02:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46501) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1GlD-0007k3-A6; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:01:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1477 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1g1GlC-0008If-MY; Sat, 15 Sep 2018 16:01:43 -0400 In-reply-to: <20180915194419.bty3fzs5tnjez3pq@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:44:19 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229821 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:44:19 +0200 > From: Ergus > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , > yurivkhan@gmail.com, hw@adminart.net, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, > npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > > The mark-point approach is not a fundamental emacs thing, it is just a > design choice enforced for technical limitations 40 years ago (like the > vi modes, the meta-hyper-syntax and so on) This means that (citing Bill > Joy about vi) it was created for a world that doesn't exist anymore. So > it can (and should) be updated/upgraded as many other things in emacs > and any long living project. I don't agree with you, and in any case it's pointless to try to argue that using mark and point for navigation in Emacs should go away. You will never get this past long-time Emacs users. We must look for other ways.