From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36828: 27.0.50; Uninstalled emacs shows installed documentation Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:13:34 +0300 Message-ID: <83ftmok8tt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87lfwitcyf.fsf@telefonica.net> <83blxekwhz.fsf@gnu.org> <87ef2ataoj.fsf@telefonica.net> <837e82kssb.fsf@gnu.org> <87a7cxu16y.fsf@telefonica.net> <87h875qbrv.fsf@gmail.com> <83r268kiss.fsf@gnu.org> <875znkrj6y.fsf@gmail.com> <83mugwkh8u.fsf@gnu.org> <871ry8rfge.fsf@gmail.com> <83k1c0kcbw.fsf@gnu.org> <87wog0pwg6.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="211054"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 36828@debbugs.gnu.org, ofv@wanadoo.es To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 29 20:14:13 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hsAA0-000smr-LD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:14:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55516 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9z-0000Ma-Me for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:14:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50529) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9t-0000MQ-R9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:14:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9r-0001mo-SY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:14:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:40269) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9q-0001lr-6u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:14:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9p-0002Xg-VN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:14:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 36828 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 36828-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B36828.15644240379755 (code B ref 36828); Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:14:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 36828) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jul 2019 18:13:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49090 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9l-0002XH-1y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:13:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38133) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9j-0002X4-Ap for 36828@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:13:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47826) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9d-0001d1-Rd; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:13:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2429 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hsA9d-0003ys-77; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:13:49 -0400 In-reply-to: <87wog0pwg6.fsf@gmail.com> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= on Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:44:25 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:164060 Archived-At: > From: Štěpán Němec > Cc: 36828@debbugs.gnu.org, ofv@wanadoo.es > Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:44:25 +0200 > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:57:55 +0300 > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Once again, we are talking about the situation where there's both an > > installed NEWS file and an uninstalled one for the same Emacs > > version. The situation where there's just one of them works exactly > > as you want. Right? > > Yes. [Although I wouldn't use the formulation "the same Emacs version" > myself, or at least would need to clarify its definition, i.e. typically > the source tree build would be newer than the installed version, but > would end up in the same installation directory, yes, so that's probably > not relevant here.] data-directory is versioned. E.g., for Emacs 26.2.90 I'm using to type this, data-directory is "/usr/share/emacs/26.2.90/etc/". So yes, we are talking about having an installed and an uninstalled NEWS _for_the_same_Emacs_version_. I use "version" in the sense of "version number". > I can live with "this is how it works, the code is hairy, let's just > keep this as a wishlist item" or something to that effect, but you > somehow seem to insist on the current behaviour not being wrong at all > or at least seem to have some kind of "the right thing" notion > apparently quite different from the expectation of myself, the OP and I > suspect most users, and at the same time you fail to explain what that > TRT is and why it is right or more right than our expectation. I wasn't aware that Óscar meant to change entirely how Emacs finds all of its directories. I still don't think that's what he meant. You certainly do, though. And my response to that was not to describe the implementation, it was to describe the _design_. Emacs looks for its directories according to how it was configured _by_design_. I understand now that you want to change that design from the ground up, but in that case this specific use case with data-directory in two places is really not what's important. What's important is that you are asking for a radical change in how Emacs is configured, and basically redesign and reimplement a large chunk of its startup code. You are also asking it to start behaving unlike most other programs out there, almost all of them looking for auxiliary files in directories computed at configure time. Programs that are "relocatable", i.e. look for the directories relative to their binary, are a minority; one reason is that this requires them to know where the binary lives, something that not every program knows (Emacs does). In any case, it's a very significant change, way more than just make this particular use case behave as Óscar expected. > Failing all that, if there is no prospect of change at all, would it be > possible to at least warn the user in cases like this? Something like > "The NEWS file you are accessing is not the one you probably think it > is"? You mean, instead of using the first NEWS we find, look in _all_ the possible places and print a warning if we find more than one NEWS file?