* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
@ 2020-07-01 16:21 Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-01 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-02 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2020-07-01 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 42154
Unfortunately, I do not know the English very well. What does the
following wording mean?
"If this is above, the **frame's window-system window** is displayed above
all other window-system windows that do not have the above property
set."
Reference: Elisp manual, 29.4.3.2 Position Parameters, c.f. "z-group".
Best regards,
Kevin Vigouroux
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-01 16:21 bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2020-07-01 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-02 12:15 ` Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-02 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-07-01 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Vigouroux; +Cc: 42154
> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 18:21:22 +0200
> From: Kevin Vigouroux via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
>
> Unfortunately, I do not know the English very well. What does the
> following wording mean?
>
> "If this is above, the **frame's window-system window** is displayed above
> all other window-system windows that do not have the above property
> set."
Is the below more clear?
If this is above, the window-system's window that corresponds to the
frame is displayed above all other window-system's windows that do
not have the above property set.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-01 16:21 bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-01 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-07-02 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-02 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2020-07-02 3:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Vigouroux; +Cc: 42154
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> "If this is above, the **frame's window-system window** is displayed above
One thing I notice is that this uses passive voice.
That tends to be harder to read; also, it leaves the
subject unstated, and that vagueness can hurt.
(I don't know what that doc string text means.)
--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-01 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-07-02 12:15 ` Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-02 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2020-07-02 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 42154
Yes, it is more clear.
Can we replace the expression "window-system's window" by "graphical
application" if appropriate?
The former expression is a bit of jargon. See the following rewording.
On a graphical terminal we distinguish two types of frames. A normal
"top-level frame" is a usual graphical application; this Emacs frame may
be directly managed by the window system. A child frame is a kind of
special frame that depends on another frame and is handled by Emacs.
[Elisp manual, chapter 19. Frames]
On a graphical terminal we distinguish two types of frames: A normal
“top-level frame” is a frame whose window-system window is a child of
the window-system’s root window for that terminal. A child frame is a
frame whose window-system window is the child of the window-system
window of another Emacs frame. *Note Child Frames*.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-02 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2020-07-02 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-04 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-07-02 13:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: ke.vigouroux, 42154
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 23:47:13 -0400
> Cc: 42154@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> One thing I notice is that this uses passive voice.
> That tends to be harder to read; also, it leaves the
> subject unstated, and that vagueness can hurt.
Is the below better?
If this is 'above', the window-system displays the window that
corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
that do not have the 'above' property set.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-02 12:15 ` Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2020-07-02 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-07-02 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kevin Vigouroux; +Cc: 42154
> From: Kevin Vigouroux <ke.vigouroux@laposte.net>
> Cc: 42154@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 14:15:09 +0200
>
> Yes, it is more clear.
Thanks, I will install it shortly.
> Can we replace the expression "window-system's window" by "graphical
> application" if appropriate?
AFAIU, that's inaccurate. The intent here is that the Emacs frame is
"wrapped" by what is known in the GUI world as "window"; and the
window-system is X Window System or any equivalent windowing
environment. (We explain what is a "window-system" elsewhere in the
manual.)
If you can suggest some wording that is more clear, but doesn't lose
the important point, please do.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-02 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-07-04 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-05 2:35 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-07-04 7:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ke.vigouroux; +Cc: 42154-done, rms
> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 16:03:17 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: ke.vigouroux@laposte.net, 42154@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> > Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 23:47:13 -0400
> > Cc: 42154@debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > One thing I notice is that this uses passive voice.
> > That tends to be harder to read; also, it leaves the
> > subject unstated, and that vagueness can hurt.
>
> Is the below better?
>
> If this is 'above', the window-system displays the window that
> corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
> that do not have the 'above' property set.
I installed that rewording, and I'm marking this bug done.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-04 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-07-05 2:35 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-05 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2020-07-05 2:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ke.vigouroux, 42154
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> > Is the below better?
> >
> > If this is 'above', the window-system displays the window that
> > corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
> > that do not have the 'above' property set.
It is better, but still ambiguous in
the window that
> > corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
the frame above?
displays the window above?
Also, what does "above" mean here? y axis? z axis?
--
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window.
2020-07-05 2:35 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2020-07-05 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-07-05 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: ke.vigouroux, 42154
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: 42154@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, ke.vigouroux@laposte.net
> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 22:35:20 -0400
>
> > > Is the below better?
> > >
> > > If this is 'above', the window-system displays the window that
> > > corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
> > > that do not have the 'above' property set.
>
> It is better, but still ambiguous in
>
> the window that
> > > corresponds to the frame above all other window-system's windows
>
> the frame above?
> displays the window above?
Concrete suggestions and patches are welcome.
> Also, what does "above" mean here? y axis? z axis?
This is explained in the preceding paragraph:
‘z-group’
This parameter specifies a relative position of the frame’s
window-system window in the stacking (Z-) order of the frame’s
display.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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2020-07-01 16:21 bug#42154: 26.3; [DOC] This wording is too complex: frame's window-system window Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-01 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-02 12:15 ` Kevin Vigouroux via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2020-07-02 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-02 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-02 13:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-04 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-05 2:35 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-05 14:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
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