From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: user-directory: New library to find user {conf, data, state, ...} files
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 15:55:31 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83fss67nvw.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkMLudccCN8eehVfd1N8Az8gNE8dEgpSo0WocCgEkuG1g@mail.gmail.com> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 7 Nov 2021 21:04:42 -0600)
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 21:04:42 -0600
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> Note that on GNU/Linux, even if the user has their configuration file in
> >> "~/.emacs.d/", the library currently prefers the XDG paths here:
> >>
> >> (user-file 'cache "image-dired")
> >> => "~/.cache/emacs/image-dired"
> >
> > This contradicts how Emacs by default finds the init file: its
> > preference is the other way around, and it sets user-emacs-directory
> > according to the directory from which it loaded the init file. I
> > don't think I understand why this package should behave differently by
> > default (it could do that as an opt-in option, of course, if that is
> > considered useful to someone).
>
> It should because it is a change for the better. We have a chance to
> decide what this should look like for the foreseeable future, and I
> don't think we are bound by past decisions if they do not produce
> optimal (or even good) results.
The problem is that changes which break users' configurations will not
be appreciated.
> The `user-emacs-directory' directory currently contains a grab-bag of,
> well, everything, which among other things makes it hard for a user to
> know what is safe to delete and what is not, which files you would need
> to backup, etc. You basically need to manually inspect the files and
> consider their content one by one.
>
> The big use-case here, though, is that we want to be able to easily
> synchronize our Emacs configuration file between several machines. You
> don't want to synchronize things like your completion history or
> recently opened files, because it is not very useful, and you will have
> an infinite amounts of conflicts. (It's somewhat easier with version
> control, which is what I use, but less so if you want to use rsync or
> unison.)
>
> The solution is to proscribe that:
>
> The categories data, cache and state files belong in specific `data',
> `state' and `cache' directories. This means that e.g. my bookmarks file
> goes to the data directory, the recentf and saveplace file goes to
> `state', while my image-dired thumbnails go to `cache'. As for runtime
> files, I note that `server-socket-dir' already uses XDG_RUNTIME_DIR (but
> gets it manually).
>
> IOW, all this should be orthogonal to where your init file is placed.
> You can put it in any of the accepted locations, including the XDG one
> if you like. (Personally, I keep mine in "~/.emacs.d/init.el" and will
> continue to do so.) You should still be able to get all of the above,
> by default and with no hassle.
My problem is that Emacs computes user-emacs-directory from the place
where it loaded the init file, and then uses the value of
user-emacs-directory to look for other files. Search the sources for
user-emacs-directory and you will see how we use it. If the changes
you propose will modify those users of user-emacs-directory to use
user-file machinery instead, and if user-file machinery prefers the
XDG directories, Emacs will not find the files it found previously,
and some of the user customizations will mysteriously stop working.
> With all that being said, we must take great care not to cause
> unnecessary churn. In particular, we should absolutely not break
> anything that's currently working. This means that we should respect
> locations of already existing files, and ensure they continue working
> seamlessly.
That is fine, but I'm not sure how you can achieve that goal and still
prefer the XDG directories.
> PS. Note that (user-directory 'config) in particular already just falls
> back to use whatever `user-emacs-directory' was set to. There is no
> need to duplicate what is happening in startup.el, or to try to
> outsmart it.
What do you mean by "falls back"? To respect the current behavior,
the value of user-emacs-directory should be used in preference to
everything else. But if we do that, then in which cases will the XDG
directories be used, since user-emacs-directory always exists and is
defined.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-11-08 13:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-10-25 13:14 master f8fed41 2/3: image-dired: Improve XDG compliance Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-25 16:14 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-25 16:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-25 17:52 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-25 18:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 10:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 13:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 13:28 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 14:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:35 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-27 4:37 ` Po Lu
2021-10-26 16:47 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-26 2:07 ` Po Lu
2021-10-25 17:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-25 17:55 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-25 17:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-25 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-26 10:25 ` Default for image-dired-main-image-directory Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 13:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 13:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-26 14:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 14:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-26 16:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 13:04 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-27 13:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 13:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-27 16:53 ` XDG config dir [Was: Re: Default for image-dired-main-image-directory] Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-28 3:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-10-28 3:48 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-28 5:57 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-28 6:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 14:14 ` Default for image-dired-main-image-directory Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 15:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:01 ` master f8fed41 2/3: image-dired: Improve XDG compliance Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 14:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:24 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 16:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 16:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 16:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 14:45 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-26 16:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26 19:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-26 19:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 1:38 ` user-directory: New library to find user {conf,data,state,...} files Stefan Kangas
2021-11-06 1:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-06 2:56 ` user-directory: New library to find user {conf, data, state, ...} files Stefan Kangas
2021-11-06 3:11 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-07 19:31 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-07 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 3:04 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-08 12:19 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-11-08 13:55 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-11-08 15:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-08 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-09 7:05 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-09 18:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-09 20:38 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-11 10:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 3:35 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-08 15:40 ` Stefan Kangas
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