From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#63072: 28.2; CC Mode: Fix "bsd" style and add "freebsd" and "openbsd" ones Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2023 16:32:21 +0300 Message-ID: <83fs8mu5ui.fsf@gnu.org> References: <5023567.7IPSAfTSoR@ravel> <2661733.poxlI1A5LX@ravel> <83ttx3szmr.fsf@gnu.org> <5569144.NofZdxuNk6@ravel> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4489"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 63072@debbugs.gnu.org To: Olivier Certner Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 26 15:33:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1prfGn-0000xa-9r for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 15:33:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1prfGb-0003BL-9Y; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:33:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1prfGZ-0003AU-Ty for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:33:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1prfGY-0005Dh-M3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1prfGY-0003Ai-2M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:33:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2023 13:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 63072 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 63072-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B63072.168251592212123 (code B ref 63072); Wed, 26 Apr 2023 13:33:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 63072) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Apr 2023 13:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1prfFZ-00039O-TY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37906) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1prfFW-000396-5e for 63072@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:32:00 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1prfFQ-00054U-GI; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:31:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=cFF2jmX31MW8d4NCHWEZTE0dZZe9s4hEK/xhVLEFuyM=; b=Ld71MdUE6thI 8VL4Cz1x/gxH+Ji0wft1nZcVbadOo/QfVdVwQ27aVFK9aCSKNKGZkB6K8GzM8D3mqSK9yM7vcpMFJ nAZTfGcw+bZ0fmarNdtUsAXYbU1mpWfva4R9LLnCjYhljvFc9pPxXgST85fIiSFNhPk3sHifqH/8L 51rUUqMukTsZJmwqUkKsb10qz70zQWbcCOYDi9xSJr8vCEveI5Y0bGErg2wke5DOnKqPgQ2iIrIZQ uMmU50aTx0PzVNqBkvd9qRrJLwLsl/tp1HH0AuxGmdX296y/1MHyLD/Q+liUdfrCjVKZqTxU1RcJZ X2B1/Uthay5q7Pb0ILwQbQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1prfFQ-0008NJ-0F; Wed, 26 Apr 2023 09:31:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5569144.NofZdxuNk6@ravel> (message from Olivier Certner on Wed, 26 Apr 2023 15:09:21 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:260676 Archived-At: > From: Olivier Certner > Cc: 63072@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2023 15:09:21 +0200 > > > If the styles don't change in practice, then I'm okay with adding > > them. But then I wonder why you bothered to mention the fact that > > they do change. > > I thought this was clear, but apparently not. I mentioned the possibility of a > change, yes, because you and I care about backwards compatibility. To quote > you: "I don't think we can change a style that was in use for such a long > time". > > There may be changes in the project styles, maybe next month, maybe in ten > years, maybe in twenty. I do not think the probability is 0 over such a long > period of time. What I would not want is you or someone else telling me in 10 > or 20 years, after such a change: "I don't think we can change a style that > was in use for such a long time". What I want instead is that, e.g., "freebsd" > can be changed as necessary. I specifically do not want to then be told to > create another style named "freebsd2" or whatever. For that to be possible, > users must be warned that these styles, although almost always stable, are > not, and will not, be set in stone for eternity, contrary to, perhaps, "bsd" > or "whitesmith". And I even offered a scheme with additional styles that will > never change, if you think that is useful (I think it might be and is so cheap > to implement that I think we should do it anyway, even if in the end nobody > uses it). > > Is that clear now? Given all that, I'm not sure we should single out these new styles at all. Once in 10 years any constant is eligible for a change.