From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 19:36:18 +0200 Message-ID: <83ehk63a7h.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a9uwumbv.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87bofbv7xe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352223448 2913 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2012 17:37:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:37:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 06 18:37:38 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TVn5k-000204-Pc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:37:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39217 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVn5b-0008S1-LT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:37:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46967) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVn5Y-0008Rt-NN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:37:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVn5X-0003mv-K5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:37:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:49529) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TVn5X-0003ma-Ba for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:37:23 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MD200G00U1NVU00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 19:36:21 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MD200GIFU8KP870@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Tue, 06 Nov 2012 19:36:21 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154701 Archived-At: > From: Adrian Robert > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:24:08 +0000 (UTC) > > Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: > > > > > Nix writes: > > > > > (Even on mobile devices with touchscreens, where you swipe the text > > > to move the text up, that operation is *still* called 'scrolling > > > down'.) > > > > Which drives me nuts, because it's the text that moves (and that's > > true in editors, as well). For me it's "page down" but "scroll the > > text up". "Scroll [nothing in particular but Do What I Mean dammit] > > " is just uninterpretable to me. > > Sure, the text moves, but we don't care about it. Alas, people _do_ care about what they do vs what they say or see. Try calling something white "black" and see if it sticks. > "Scroll down" refers to what happens with the *viewer's* perspective > into the content that we are focusing on. This reasoning would work if you'd need to swipe the window's frame down, and text would then move up. But that's not what's happening: the user must explicitly swipe the text UP. This is different from desktops, where you press a key labeled "Page Down", and don't make any gestures in the upward direction.