From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:18:39 +0200 Message-ID: <83egrpnhr4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> <6e11cd85-09a0-4b7a-baa2-0c810bdebbce@default> <871tnsg0w7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834msoqrsg.fsf@gnu.org> <5498C82D.5080605@cs.ucla.edu> <837fxjovxd.fsf@gnu.org> <21656.63274.136679.369052@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <831tnqp6mq.fsf@gnu.org> <874msl69fb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419437962 3096 80.91.229.3 (24 Dec 2014 16:19:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 16:19:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, adatgyujto@gmail.com, yuri.v.khan@gmail.com To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 24 17:19:11 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oeT-00016k-DX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 17:19:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48820 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oeS-00023j-P1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:19:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49543) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oeD-00020J-BY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:18:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oe8-0002Jo-GZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:18:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout27.012.net.il ([80.179.55.183]:57100) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3oe8-0002Jf-2t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:18:48 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout27.012.net.il by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NH300900GVM5J00@mtaout27.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:14:56 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NH3006CRH4VBY40@mtaout27.012.net.il>; Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:14:56 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <874msl69fb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180646 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, > eggert@cs.ucla.edu, > lennart.borgman@gmail.com, > adatgyujto@gmail.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 11:58:16 +0900 > > > > Paul is on the side of the angels, he just wants to add a new useful > > > tool (web search) > > > > That's a no-brainer. > > Apparently the word "just" was not. Despite his disclaimers, you took > his post as a deprecation of manuals in Info format. Yes. And I stand by that interpretation. > > No one said anything to the contrary, so there's no need to argue > > with that non-existing argument. > > Please slow down, Eli. Nobody said there was an argument with that. > My intention was to imply that you seem to be misinterpreting his post > which was intended to say that, and not intended to say that web search > should *replace* Info indexes. Based on what Paul wrote since then (cf. "inferior technology"), I think my interpretation was not a mistake. > > Web search is a valuable tool when you want to expand on the > > information you found in the manuals. However, for information > > that is in the manuals, Info is usually faster and more accurate. > > "Nobody said anything to the contrary, so why are you arguing with > that nonexistent argument?" Because someone did say that. Several someone's, in fact. > Some people are arguing that for them and for people like them Emacs > manuals at present do *not* have the necessary information indexed, > and that therefore web search is a relatively cheap way to improve > access to information about Emacs. A few deprecate Info manuals[1], > it's true, but surely Paul doesn't. I have no argument with those "some" (and actually did some work yesterday to improve on that), but violently disagree with those "few". I don't think I've misinterpreted to which group Paul belongs, but that doesn't really matter, as my problem is with the views of those "few", not with them personally.