From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#29766: 25.3; REGRESSION, Dired on MS Windows, switches -alF Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 18:05:06 +0200 Message-ID: <83efnqputp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <<<52375503-be26-49ea-9d31-9926a125c0db@default>>> <<<83lghzq0r4.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<07c40ae2-2160-43e3-b246-b98db5fc4b04@default>> <<83ind3pfez.fsf@gnu.org>> <1ca5954e-224c-4bce-b70b-8d3fece8d7fd@default> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1513699458 1361 195.159.176.226 (19 Dec 2017 16:04:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:04:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 29766@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 19 17:04:13 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKNI-0008Mh-Qi for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:04:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51977 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKPH-0004GZ-6r for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:06:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55211) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKP8-0004Fy-IO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:06:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKP4-0001mF-5Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:06:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33805) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKP4-0001lk-1W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:06:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKP3-0006ZX-NV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:06:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 29766 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 29766-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B29766.151369950825192 (code B ref 29766); Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:06:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 29766) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Dec 2017 16:05:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42486 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKOB-0006YG-P1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:05:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34709) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKOA-0006Xk-87 for 29766@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:05:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKO0-0000bs-Nb for 29766@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:05:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKO0-0000bo-KZ; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:04:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2140 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1eRKO0-0006Mv-4o; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:04:56 -0500 In-reply-to: <1ca5954e-224c-4bce-b70b-8d3fece8d7fd@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:11:00 -0800 (PST)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:141253 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:11:00 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: 29766-done@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Why the longstanding default behavior changed? > > > > Because it makes Dired on Windows sort in the order that's much more > > similar to what it does on GNU/Linux (where 'ls' produces such an > > ordering by default in popular locales). > > And that's a good idea because ___? For the same reason Emacs displays files in Dired buffers as "ls -l" on Unix would, the same reason why we don't put directories first and display the execute "attribute bit" for programs, which doesn't exist on Windows, the same reason why we display "inode numbers" if you add "-i" to the switches. We do all that, and more, to try to present a similar UX on all supported platforms. I thought this was clear to any veteran user of Emacs. > I suppose it's good for people using multiple platforms > (consistency). But since different platforms have > (apparently) such different outside-Emacs behaviors, > perhaps an alist of values, keyed by platform in some > way, would be better. Then the defaults for common > platforms could be preconfigured according to what > users of those platforms might expect. And a user > of multiple platforms could opt for either the same > behavior everywhere or different behaviors here and > there. Just something to think about, I guess. We already have plenty of such customization options in ls-lisp.el, had them for a long time.