From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#400: [External] : Re: bug#400: 23.0.60; C-h v should pick up lispified name in Customize Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 09:37:59 +0300 Message-ID: <83ee8eannc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <007f01c8cca9$3cbbf770$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <875z8rum4k.fsf@gnus.org> <83o8mjnf5n.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38742"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 400@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 21 08:38:26 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRic-0009t2-DA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 08:38:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54168 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRia-0002Qu-IS for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:38:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45574) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRiF-0002Qf-8u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:38:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44607) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRiE-0006b7-3B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRiD-0001N7-Ug for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:38:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 400 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 400-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B400.16347982745258 (code B ref 400); Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:38:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 400) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2021 06:37:54 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56153 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRi5-0001Mj-UZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:37:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43608) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRi3-0001MT-Ms for 400@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:37:52 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41174) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRhx-0006N1-C4; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2335 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdRhx-0003kY-08; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:37:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:27:41 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:217753 Archived-At: > From: Drew Adams > CC: Lars Ingebrigtsen , > "400@debbugs.gnu.org" > <400@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:27:41 +0000 > > Eli says this isn't reasonable because the doc is > already displayed in Customize. It is displayed > (though it might be partially hidden), but without > its _links_. Being shown there is no substitute > for *Help*. And why is that a problem? Customize is not for people who will look at the code, Customize is for people who want easy customizations, which presumes new users. Any particular reason why would they so sorely miss what *Help* adds to the doc string? However, we could extend "C-h v" to take the default from the variable being customized in the current Custom buffer, if there's nothing appropriate at point. Would that be okay? > I also think that `custom-unlispify-tag-names' > should be OFF by default. I disagree, again because this feature targets new users, for whom the Lisp-style names could very well be confusing and alien. > The Lisp name is what's useful to users - all > users. DISAGREE!! That's not how this feature is designed to work; your opinions are noted, but they are against the spirit of Customize.