Text properties gone from edit menu

Text properties gone from edit menu

[Po Lu]

The removal of the M-o prefix for facemenu commands seems to have had an
unintended side effect: the Text Properties submenu has disappeared from
the Edit menu.

Will anyone mind if I fix that?  And should I do that on the release
branch, since it's a regression from 27.2?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Stefan Kangas]

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

> The removal of the M-o prefix for facemenu commands seems to have had an
> unintended side effect: the Text Properties submenu has disappeared from
> the Edit menu.
>
> Will anyone mind if I fix that?  And should I do that on the release
> branch, since it's a regression from 27.2?

IIUC, the global binding was removed because the command was only
useful in one specialized mode (enriched-mode).  So why should we keep
the global menu entry?  It seems to me that it belongs in the
'enriched-mode' specific menu instead.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2022 21:47:20 +0800
> 
> The removal of the M-o prefix for facemenu commands seems to have had an
> unintended side effect: the Text Properties submenu has disappeared from
> the Edit menu.

Just "Mix load-library RET facemenu RET", and it re-appears.

> Will anyone mind if I fix that?  And should I do that on the release
> branch, since it's a regression from 27.2?

What would that menu say?  All of its items aren't actionable until
facemenu is loaded.

This is not a regression, this is a deliberate removal of
functionality that was deemed not important enough.  It took us a lot
of heated discussions to get there, and I wouldn't want to restart
those discussions.

If you don't like the removal and its side effects, just add this to
your init file:

  (when (>= emacs-major-version 28)
    (require 'facemenu)
    (define-key global-map "\M-o" 'facemenu-keymap)
    (define-key facemenu-keymap "\es" 'center-line)
    (define-key facemenu-keymap "\eS" 'center-paragraph))

That's what I did.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:48:50 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> > From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2022 21:47:20 +0800
> > 
> > The removal of the M-o prefix for facemenu commands seems to have had an
> > unintended side effect: the Text Properties submenu has disappeared from
> > the Edit menu.
> 
> Just "Mix load-library RET facemenu RET", and it re-appears.
        ^^^
I  mean "M-x", of course.  Sorry.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> This is not a regression, this is a deliberate removal of
> functionality that was deemed not important enough.  It took us a lot
> of heated discussions to get there, and I wouldn't want to restart
> those discussions.

I thought it was only agreed to free up `M-o' as a prefix for ELPA
packages, not to remove the text properties menu from the menu bar as
well.

Thanks.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 09:06:09 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > This is not a regression, this is a deliberate removal of
> > functionality that was deemed not important enough.  It took us a lot
> > of heated discussions to get there, and I wouldn't want to restart
> > those discussions.
> 
> I thought it was only agreed to free up `M-o' as a prefix for ELPA
> packages, not to remove the text properties menu from the menu bar as
> well.

The "Text Properties" menu item makes no sense without facemenu being
available.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> I thought it was only agreed to free up `M-o' as a prefix for ELPA
>> packages, not to remove the text properties menu from the menu bar as
>> well.

> The "Text Properties" menu item makes no sense without facemenu being
> available.

But removing the facemenu map from `M-o' doesn't equate to facemenu not
"being available", right?

Thanks.

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 15:52:47 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> I thought it was only agreed to free up `M-o' as a prefix for ELPA
> >> packages, not to remove the text properties menu from the menu bar as
> >> well.
> 
> > The "Text Properties" menu item makes no sense without facemenu being
> > available.
> 
> But removing the facemenu map from `M-o' doesn't equate to facemenu not
> "being available", right?

The decision was that this entire feature is not useful enough to have
bindings and menu items by default.  It started with M-o, but ended
with much more (as happens frequently in our discussions, where the
tail not only wags the dog, but eventually kills it as well).

Re: Text properties gone from edit menu

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> The decision was that this entire feature is not useful enough to have
> bindings and menu items by default.  It started with M-o, but ended
> with much more (as happens frequently in our discussions, where the
> tail not only wags the dog, but eventually kills it as well).

Okay then.  But I remember that menu item existing all the way back to
Emacs 19.34 (when there was no M-o binding at all), so maybe the
decision about that particular non-intrusive item in the Edit menu could
be revisited at some time in the future.

Thanks.

RE: [External] : Text properties gone from edit menu

[Drew Adams]

> The removal of the M-o prefix for facemenu commands seems to have had an
> unintended side effect: the Text Properties submenu has disappeared from
> the Edit menu.

Not sure it was unintended.
IMO, it was misguided, however.

> Will anyone mind if I fix that?  And should I do that on the release
> branch, since it's a regression from 27.2?

Indeed.

It was wrong to think that facemenu
is only about `M-o', or is only about
enriched-mode, or its commands don't
belong on the menu.

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2021-05/msg00461.html

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2021-03/msg01258.html