From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61496: 30.0.50; Default value of icon-title-format Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 19:29:54 +0200 Message-ID: <83edqscfzh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87zg9hqflv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83fsb8e8yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt5gqshv.fsf@telefonica.net> <83v8k4cp2z.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1p0tj05.fsf@yahoo.com> <83mt5gcnqb.fsf@gnu.org> <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="768"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 61496@debbugs.gnu.org To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 14 18:31:24 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz9H-000AZh-RI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 18:31:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8z-0008Gv-K3; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8w-0008CN-VL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8w-0000eC-EI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8v-0007xf-Uz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61496 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61496-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61496.167639583530566 (code B ref 61496); Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:31:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61496) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Feb 2023 17:30:35 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8U-0007ww-Q2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36712) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8T-0007wj-4B for 61496@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:33 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8M-0000No-EX; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=urXScp2UE7SXPpOJ5WKEyfOAQIuMEkrKQn9Fzj6oA9g=; b=KUVKC5AQsjm3T4ECpkde QqSrw17eauyhF7B0FJGvRZF5IEhs/mAlSyjxkgM+/GmnjSbdtnzqraNECIFsLdsjBYwY+upLXIZpi 8mp60RVmqY5m/5GgVeRhZNoAFE9jrnEf0AM3dSynUKDi+xIZ93FdTkYF0sulamm3Yml+Mew5+Whbl maRqzkWp4HRMAkPrVbbV4e3a/NNiotBuq3R5fEpwCxI34nufk70OMKI/W3RJdPGn9Hm9Qwxphl77q 4ETTHyKylDeNMXOIv38r1DRaOSxK683dTWgFTNQQsfJFM6+vpSndWAbGlEYI7q096RICWkR908ZON UlxWM5SxpJVIIg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pRz8K-0006Ea-3i; Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:30:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87bklwqoq6.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255619 Archived-At: > From: Óscar Fuentes > Cc: Po Lu , 61496@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:57:21 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> BTW, for the record: > >> > >> icon-title-format stopped working after some Emacs 24.x release, and was > >> only fixed in Emacs 29. > >> > >> I don't know if that's relevant or not. I have no opinion as to the > >> arguments you or Oscar have presented, as I have not yet read them, but > >> I am in favor of his change. > > > > I'm not opposed to the change, I just asked for minor changes in some > > details of the change. > > The core of my proposal, is changing icon-title-format's default, so > users (and external scripts!) will keep observing the same behavior > after upgrading to 29. I can't believe that we are actually making such a fuss about asking the affected users to add a single line to their init files: (setq icon-title-format t) At times, bugfixes end up producing backward-incompatible behavior, and when that happens, we call those cases out in NEWS and tell users how to unbreak whatever could be broken by the changes. Why cannot that be done in this case? Please understand: the change you propose, at the 95th minute, _is_ backward-incompatible. You argue that no one could possibly not want such a change, but I have too much gray hair from watching such assumptions and firm opinions defeated by the bitter reality to believe this. The only relatively reliable judge is user feedback, and we don't have time to wait for that for Emacs 29. So I cannot agree to what you propose, and urge you to see the dangers. But if you think the change in Emacs 29 behavior in this aspect is so grave, we could instead revert that change on emacs-29, leaving icon-title-format broken as it was since Emacs 24, and leave the fix only on master. Then on master we could perhaps change the default more easily. > OTOH, I think that what Po just said speak volumes about the abundance > and importance of icon-title-format on user's config. Granted, I took his opinion into account.