From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:02:09 +0300 Message-ID: <83d3vwlgbi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874oh9jwqw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276337052 27175 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 10:04:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, cloos@jhcloos.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 12:04:10 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONNZN-0000Fb-Si for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:04:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33245 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONNZN-00042l-BW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:04:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51384 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONNXa-00033G-Tq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:02:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONNXZ-0005Np-MT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:02:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:33779) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONNXX-0005NM-EY; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:02:11 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00600BSV3F00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:02:10 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.119.36]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W001IVBVL4DA0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:02:10 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <874oh9jwqw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125794 Archived-At: > From: Chong Yidong > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:37:59 -0400 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , David Kastrup , > =09emacs-devel@gnu.org >=20 > James Cloos writes: >=20 > > In gedit C-f and C-b move forward and backward logically, whereas= LEFT > > and RIGHT move left and right visually. I suspect that all =CF= =80=CE=B1=CE=BD=E8=AA=9E (aka > > pango) apps -- notably including most gtk/gnome apps -- will also= do so. > > > > In seamonkey, in a web-page's text input box, both the arrow keys= and > > the C-b and C-f keys move visually. > > > > In gvim, both the h and l keys and the arrow keys move visually. > > > > In Openoffice.org, the arrow keys move logically. >=20 > Well, this sample indicates a complete lack of consensus, contra El= i's > earlier statement that I don't think so. At least, we should remove gvim from this sample, and wait for James to provide more accurate information about the rest. > >>> this is what users of bidirectional scripts expect -- they are = used > >>> to it in every other bidi-aware application out there. >=20 > One possibility is that editors intended specifically for bidi, suc= h as > native-language Hebrew or Arabic apps, have a convention that vim, > gedit, etc have not taken up. So, could anyone who has experience = with > such apps speak up? I just did speak up. What is implemented in Emacs now is precisely what those native apps do. Why don't you believe me?