From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org
Subject: Re: base
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:57:43 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83d3t4mtjs.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sk204nme.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
> From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
> Cc: miles@gnu.org,
> emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:43:05 +0900
>
> Eli Zaretskii writes:
>
> > Thanks. However, what you wrote just shows once again that we are
> > talking on two very different levels. Your "user" is actually a
> > hacker who wants to know and understand a lot about low-level
> > details of the tool's operation.
>
> No. I'm saying that the project needs a few users who understand at
> that level, and that therefore it is important to have such a model.
This is the first time this particular issue comes up. Until now, the
views with which I was arguing seemed to tell that _any_ user needs
such an understanding to use a dVCS safely and efficiently.
> I apologize for not making it clear that I do understand that average
> users can do fine without deep understanding (but with competent
> guidance).
That's okay, at least we are now in partial agreement. Not sure
others agree, though.
> My main point is that somebody like you who has intervened in the
> process of recommending workflows really should have a good model.
Maybe. I simply don't yet have enough experience to make my own
opinion. Neither does Emacs as a project, I think. So I will take
your word for it, for now.
> > quite efficiently (no thanks to bzr docs), without having a
> > slightest idea how it represents the history DAG or what are all
> > those files in the .bzr subdirectories of my repository.
>
> Er, Eli, I didn't mention any of those files (or their analogs in
> git), and I don't recall the docs I pointed to describing them,
> although it did mention their existence.
The docs you pointed to do describe them. This page, for example:
http://book.git-scm.com/1_git_directory_and_working_directory.html
> > Contrary to what you say, these are, IMO, private data, not public
> > data; for example, if bzr changes its repository format, I as a
> > user don't care as long as there's a simple way of upgrading to the
> > new format.
>
> But the point is that often there isn't a simple way. In fact, on one
> of my platforms I'm currently stuck without a usable bzr because
> Ubuntu Jaunty provides bzr 1.13, and that doesn't do format 2a, which
> is required for Launchpad. Upgrading Ubuntu is not an easy option for
> me, either.
Well, when things get broken, you need a technician to fix them. Most
users aren't technicians. Projects shouldn't choose tools that become
broken or could break the project to the degree that most users
couldn't fix without calling a technician.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-08-27 6:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-08-22 12:06 base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-22 13:01 ` base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:50 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-22 13:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-23 10:38 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-23 11:03 ` base Leo
2010-08-23 12:56 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 4:32 ` base Richard Stallman
2010-08-24 6:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 7:22 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 8:29 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 8:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 9:10 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 10:03 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 14:05 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 15:00 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 16:14 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 12:32 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 12:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-24 16:18 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:37 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 16:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 16:38 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 17:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 17:35 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 17:45 ` base Frank Schmitt
2010-08-25 4:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 6:38 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:48 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:02 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:17 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:12 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 20:34 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 20:43 ` base Bernardo Barros
2010-08-25 20:55 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 18:00 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 19:04 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 23:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 23:48 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 0:19 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 3:13 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 3:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 5:46 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:15 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:35 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 10:43 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 15:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 11:21 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:13 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 15:11 ` base Harald Hanche-Olsen
2010-08-25 19:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 19:07 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 21:06 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 3:10 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 3:27 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 3:29 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 5:37 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 6:29 ` base Leo
2010-08-26 8:23 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 9:16 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 12:25 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 12:35 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 13:27 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 13:49 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 14:42 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:11 ` base David Robinow
2010-08-26 15:50 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:28 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 5:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-28 15:18 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 17:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 13:03 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:52 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 14:25 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-27 15:25 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 16:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 17:32 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 18:58 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:58 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 22:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:16 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 20:00 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-29 12:21 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 18:09 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 16:09 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:51 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 10:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:26 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 11:52 ` base Leo
2010-08-27 5:43 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 6:57 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2010-08-27 7:06 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 13:16 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 7:38 ` base Leo
2010-08-25 7:41 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 13:23 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-25 9:07 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-24 14:09 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 14:13 ` base Miles Bader
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