From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The new text-mode menu and the cursor in -nw mode Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:12:15 +0300 Message-ID: <83d2g1o2lc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d2g1iqzp.fsf@fx.delysid.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1398701574 25759 80.91.229.3 (28 Apr 2014 16:12:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:12:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Mario Lang Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 28 18:12:47 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WeoAg-0003XU-GY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:12:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44873 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WeoAg-0006eq-32 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:12:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48049) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WeoAU-0006Rw-Iw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:12:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WeoAJ-0008UL-Dt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:12:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:61847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WeoAJ-0008Ts-5g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:12:23 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N4R007000SAGN00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:12:09 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N4R00688109YZ90@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:12:09 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87d2g1iqzp.fsf@fx.delysid.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:171645 Archived-At: > From: Mario Lang > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:21:46 +0200 > > The new text mode menu is nice, something I have been waiting for since > a long time. However, I have an accessibility issue with it: When I hit > F10 to go to the menu, the menu pops up and the selected item is > highlighted with a change of color, but the terminal cursor stays at the > place in the currently selected buffer. I can see that this makes sense > for some use cases (you can still see where point is while navigating > the menu), but it is quite a problem to (some) blind users of Emacs. Actually, we turn off the cursor while a menu is active, because otherwise it can show through the menu, which is ugly. We turn it back on only when the menu pops down, i.e. the user either makes a selection or quits the menu. > Screen readers on UNIX usually do only track the hardware cursor > position, but they do not track background color changes. So my screen > reader has currently no way to follow the currently selected menu item, > which makes the menu as such, rather useless because it is very > time-inefficient for me. > > Similar to my recent request about allowing blink-matching-paren being > set to 'jump, and therefore getting the old hardware-cursor behaviour > back, I'd like to ask if there is a way to enhance the new text mode > menu with a user option to have the terminal cursor jump to the > currently selected menu item? Please tell more, as I don't yet understand the requirements (and don't have Unix screen readers anywhere near me to try this myself). E.g., is it OK to have the cursor turned off when the menu is displayed? IOW, are you saying that only the cursor coordinates matter, not whether it is visible or not? Next, what happens when some sub-menu is selected? When the user does this, we redraw large portions of the screen (to remove the old menu and display the new one), and each screen line that is partially or fully redrawn causes cursor motion -- will this cause those portions that are redrawn to be read, and if so, is that OK? Also, moving to a different menu item will generally display the corresponding help echo in the echo area -- does it matter whether the help echo is read before or after the newly highlighted menu item? Finally, what exactly is read by the screen reader, given a cursor position? That is, how does the reader know when to stop reading stuff off the screen? I'm asking this because the TTY menus overlay the buffer text at some arbitrary place, so where the menu item ends, there's some random text, which typically starts in the middle of a word. If the reader will read that, you will hear a terrible gibberish. Thanks.