From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: git history tracking across renames (and emacs support) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 21:25:20 +0300 Message-ID: <83d0vtfx4f.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a7yn7tqp.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878te75xa1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ind6l2tt.fsf@lifelogs.com> <877etklvsa.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83y3m0pv8u.fsf@gnu.org> <86608msw0h.fsf@dod.no> <838tdiet25.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3li4vh7.fsf@telefonica.net> <87efnan46u.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <86wp12qtgo.fsf@dod.no> <83tvw6chqv.fsf@gnu.org> <86shbprix7.fsf_-_@dod.no> <838t6jgl1k.fsf@gnu.org> <601m6cc6.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83o9fefnv9.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1531333414 25029 195.159.176.226 (11 Jul 2018 18:23:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:23:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: tzz@lifelogs.com, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 11 20:23:29 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJlx-0006O9-DZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 20:23:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55014 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJo2-0005wN-NA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:25:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37423) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJns-0005w9-JI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:25:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJno-0001H8-Tf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:25:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:55058) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJno-0001H2-Oj; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:25:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4250 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fdJnn-000805-Rb; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:25:24 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Radon Rosborough on Wed, 11 Jul 2018 11:08:54 -0600) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:227260 Archived-At: > From: Radon Rosborough > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 11:08:54 -0600 > Cc: Ted Zlatanov , larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel > > Wait, what? I was writing these commit messages manually, and it was a > huge pain. How do you do it automatically? Semi-automatically. See my other message where I hope I explained what I meant. > I looked in CONTRIBUTE and there was lots of information about the > format, but none about how to auto-generate it. The section > "Generating ChangeLog entries" linked me to the "Change Log Commands" > section of the manual, which is all about ChangeLog files and doesn't > mention commit messages at all. I hope you will understand the connection after reading my other message. But if you have suggestions for clarifying CONTRIBUTE, please tell. > CONTRIBUTE also mentioned something > about `vc-dwim' but this is not relevant since I use Magit. I believe magit has a command that helps you produce the log message. > No other project I contribute to has this kind of requirement, and > it most definitely raises the bar to new contributors. I guess it depends on the projects. I contribute to several other projects, like GDB, Gawk, and Texinfo, and they all maintain ChangeLog files, let alone require the format. GNU Make doesn't keep ChangeLog files, but its log messages are formatted like ChangeLog. So I guess my experience is 100% opposite of yours. > I don't understand the above comment at all; maybe you can > elaborate? I think I already did, in my other messages. > If you're concerned about new contributors not knowing how to write > commit messages in the absence of the existing format, why not just > link them to ? Like I said: free text log messages leave a lot of space for disagreement about what is and what isn't a good message. IME, new contributors want clear and concise instructions; telling them to read a long blog will definitely turn off many of them. > I think that when discussing all sorts of these issues on emacs-devel > (using modern code hosting, modern issue tracking, modern CI, modern > pull request workflow, ...) the discussion is biased because most of > the people who would benefit from moving into the future simply don't > bother to contribute to Emacs or post here. It's an opportunity cost > that you will not be able to measure by posting an inquiry to a > mailing list(!). And naturally the maintainers all have extensive > experience with using the existing tooling and are inclined to think > it is easier to use than it actually is. There's no way around that: the only practical way of changing the Emacs development practices is from within. Think about it: why would I support radical changes in our procedures that get in the way of my work, when I have so little time to work on Emacs and so much to do? Any project is shaped by those who work on it the most.