From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41129: outline-mode: New keybindings for demote/promote/move-subtree Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:22:38 +0200 Message-ID: <83czxm8c1t.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87k0rx3792.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn1oxs7u.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0rv0wqc.fsf@gnus.org> <83h7my8fu5.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37643"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 41129@debbugs.gnu.org To: Howard Melman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 30 20:23:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpt-0009h3-NP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:23:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46366 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vps-0007Ey-82 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:23:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57626) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpm-0007Ei-8K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:23:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:44287) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpm-0007Jo-0t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:23:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpl-0002MT-St for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:23:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 41129 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 41129-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B41129.16120345479033 (code B ref 41129); Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:23:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 41129) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2021 19:22:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpC-0002Ld-RX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:22:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39626) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vpA-0002LP-Hq for 41129@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:22:25 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50108) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vp5-00071z-CG; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:22:19 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4667 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l5vp4-0004ZW-GR; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 14:22:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:38 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:198962 Archived-At: > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:48:38 -0500 > > > This command has two bindings not because of its importance, but > > because other programs out there use those bindings. Emacs is > > following the expectations of the users here. > > Ok, but in emacs they expect and need both? Yes, because some applications support one and others the other key binding. > How do they adjust in org mode? Or is this a complaint that users of > right-word have in org-mode? Would users of outline-minor-mode > adjust similarly? The bindings have nothing to do with bidirectional text. C- and C- (and the corresponding M- bindings) have a meaning in strict left-to-right text as well: they move by words in the corresponding directions. > Does outline-mode support right-to-left oriented outlines? > Does org? Yes to both questions, but again: the issue at hand has nothing to do with bidirectional editing. > I'm guessing not because then these arrow key bindings would want to > adjust demote/promote behavior accordingly. Should they? That's a separate issue, for which I have no definite opinions to offer. I chimed in to set the record straight on these bindings regardless of Org or Outline. Whether rebinding these to level-related commands will or will not confuse users of Org and Outline is something for those users to say. > Maybe these bindings could be in another minor-mode that > could be enabled by those users that want them? > outline-use-org-bindings-minor-mode. I think the idea is that many users want them.