bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Thomas Klausner]

Severity: wishlist

Hi!

Recently, in git head, the default name for the emacs.pdmp file
changed to emacs-someverylonghexstring.pdmp (I think in commit
e81f1faca4382ed5c8f15fec84fb7c900a5468f9).

I don't know why this is preferred to the simple emacs.pdmp that was
there before. I do not see a rationale in the commit messsage.

I'm sending this mail because this filename causes problems for
packagers who prefer maintaining static file lists to make sure
exactly a known list of files is installed by a program.

Can you explain why this was changed?

Can it perhaps be changed back? Or is there an option to not use it?

Thanks,
 Thomas

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> writes:

> I don't know why this is preferred to the simple emacs.pdmp that was
> there before. I do not see a rationale in the commit messsage.

The commit message refers to bug#42790, which has the discussion.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> writes:

> I'm sending this mail because this filename causes problems for
> packagers who prefer maintaining static file lists to make sure
> exactly a known list of files is installed by a program.

If you rename the file to "emacs.pdmp", Emacs will still find it, but I
guess this isn't documented.  We could also add a configure option to do
this renaming automatically, I guess?

Anybody got an opinion here?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:41:09 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

    Lars> Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> writes:
    >> I'm sending this mail because this filename causes problems for
    >> packagers who prefer maintaining static file lists to make sure
    >> exactly a known list of files is installed by a program.

    Lars> If you rename the file to "emacs.pdmp", Emacs will still find it, but I
    Lars> guess this isn't documented.  We could also add a configure option to do
    Lars> this renaming automatically, I guess?

Yes, we donʼt have enough configure options, and our Makefiles are too
simple /s

    Lars> Anybody got an opinion here?

We should document the 'emacs.pdmp' thing, but after that isnʼt it a
packaging issue? Whomever wants 'emacs.pdmp' just copies the actual
pdmp file to that.

Robert
-- 

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

> We should document the 'emacs.pdmp' thing, but after that isnʼt it a
> packaging issue? Whomever wants 'emacs.pdmp' just copies the actual
> pdmp file to that.

Sure.  Where's a good place to document this so that Debian maintainers
(etc) will find it?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 10:04:01 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

    Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:
    >> We should document the 'emacs.pdmp' thing, but after that isnʼt it a
    >> packaging issue? Whomever wants 'emacs.pdmp' just copies the actual
    >> pdmp file to that.

    Lars> Sure.  Where's a good place to document this so that Debian maintainers
    Lars> (etc) will find it?

etc/NEWS? This is an emacs-29 thing, no? Thatʼs where we announced the
portable dumper itself.

Robert
-- 

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

> etc/NEWS? This is an emacs-29 thing, no? Thatʼs where we announced the
> portable dumper itself.

Yes, but it should be documented forever -- people will be wondering
later, too.

But I see that I forgot to mention it in NEWS, and it's definitely
NEWS-worthy.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 10:46:18 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> said:

    Lars> Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:
    >> etc/NEWS? This is an emacs-29 thing, no? Thatʼs where we announced the
    >> portable dumper itself.

    Lars> Yes, but it should be documented forever -- people will be wondering
    Lars> later, too.

(info "(elisp) Building Emacs")

Robert
-- 

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:41:09 +0200
> Cc: 51234@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> writes:
> 
> > I'm sending this mail because this filename causes problems for
> > packagers who prefer maintaining static file lists to make sure
> > exactly a known list of files is installed by a program.
> 
> If you rename the file to "emacs.pdmp", Emacs will still find it, but I
> guess this isn't documented.  We could also add a configure option to do
> this renaming automatically, I guess?
> 
> Anybody got an opinion here?

Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
files.

So perhaps the distros will just have to adapt?

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:41:09 +0200
> Cc: 51234@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> writes:
> 
> > I'm sending this mail because this filename causes problems for
> > packagers who prefer maintaining static file lists to make sure
> > exactly a known list of files is installed by a program.
> 
> If you rename the file to "emacs.pdmp", Emacs will still find it, but I
> guess this isn't documented.  We could also add a configure option to do
> this renaming automatically, I guess?
> 
> Anybody got an opinion here?

Me, I wonder how will those distros cope with the *.eln files, which
also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
files.

So perhaps the distros will just have to adapt?

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Thomas Klausner]

On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:31:06PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
> also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
> with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
> files.

What are .eln files? I don't see any in the NetBSD build.

Here are the files for the emacs-git package.

https://github.com/NetBSD/pkgsrc-wip/tree/master/emacs-git

The PLIST contains the files that get installed, the Makefile and
options.mk contain any enable/disable arguments to configure.

> So perhaps the distros will just have to adapt?

I've changed the package to rename the emacs-*.pdmp file to emacs.pdmp.
 Thomas

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 14:33:53 +0200, Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at> said:

    Thomas> On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:31:06PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
    >> Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
    >> also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
    >> with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
    >> files.

    Thomas> What are .eln files? I don't see any in the NetBSD build.

Theyʼre the output of the native lisp compiler, which will only get
generated if you successfully configure
'--with-native-compilation'. See etc/NEWS for details.

Robert
-- 

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 14:33:53 +0200
> From: Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at>
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>, 51234@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 03:31:06PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
> > also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
> > with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
> > files.
> 
> What are .eln files? I don't see any in the NetBSD build.

You didn't configure --with-native-compilation, I guess?

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

>     Lars> Yes, but it should be documented forever -- people will be wondering
>     Lars> later, too.
>
> (info "(elisp) Building Emacs")

Yes, I guess...

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
> also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
> with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
> files.
>
> So perhaps the distros will just have to adapt?

That's a good point.  So perhaps we shouldn't document how to get to a
known-name setup, because that won't work for nativecomp?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Andreas Schwab]

On Okt 18 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Me, I wonder how will those distros cope with the *.eln files, which
> also include hashes that aren't known in advance.

Packagers like RPM can cope with that by using wildcards.  They can also
generate file lists on the fly.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 15:13:53 +0200
> Cc: 51234@debbugs.gnu.org, Thomas Klausner <tk@giga.or.at>
> 
> > Me, I wonder how will those distros code with the *.eln files, which
> > also include hashes that aren't known in advance.  Solving the issue
> > with the pdumper file will still leave this other one, with many more
> > files.
> >
> > So perhaps the distros will just have to adapt?
> 
> That's a good point.  So perhaps we shouldn't document how to get to a
> known-name setup, because that won't work for nativecomp?

That's what I think.  The actual problem is much larger than just one
file.

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Glenn Morris]

Andreas Schwab wrote:

> On Okt 18 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> Me, I wonder how will those distros cope with the *.eln files, which
>> also include hashes that aren't known in advance.
>
> Packagers like RPM can cope with that by using wildcards.  They can also
> generate file lists on the fly.

I feel like +1'ing this.
Plus they also warn if there are installed but unpackaged files, so
there isn't really a pressing need to announce/document the name change.
I see no need to add an option to revert to "emacs.pdmp".

>>> I've changed the package to rename the emacs-*.pdmp file to emacs.pdmp.

A mistake IMO.

bug#51234: emacs.pdmp file name (--fingerprint)

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> That's a good point.  So perhaps we shouldn't document how to get to a
>> known-name setup, because that won't work for nativecomp?
>
> That's what I think.  The actual problem is much larger than just one
> file.

That seems to be the conclusion here, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no