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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "John Wiegley" <johnw@gnu.org>
Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, larsi@gnus.org, lokedhs@gmail.com,
	rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 11:30:49 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83bn72cxfa.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2io1a5y3p.fsf@newartisans.com> (message from John Wiegley on Sat, 27 Feb 2016 00:58:02 -0800)

> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm,  rms@gnu.org,  lokedhs@gmail.com,  larsi@gnus.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 00:58:02 -0800
> 
> Thank you for that summary. From that reading, it sounds like this will
> require a fairly complex decision tree, to determine what should be folded
> when based on the details of each particular country/language?

I fail to see the complexity, but that's me.  In particular, the first
alternative (to have it disabled in certain locales) seems very simple
to me.

> And what about a Swedish speaker living in America who uses en_US because
> that's what 90% of his text is in, who then wants to search some Swedish text?
> Is it the locale that determines it, or something specific to the nature of
> the text in each buffer? And how would Emacs know?

I've asked these questions a lot in this discussion, and still the
majority thinks that the locale in which Emacs is started should be
used for the defaults.  So you are in fact arguing with what the
majority says, not with me.

> Unless I'm not seeing the light at the end of this tunnel, this feature is
> just not ready for prime-time as a default. There are too many unanswered
> questions, and it sounds like none of them can be answered in the abstract for
> every case. I have a feeling we'd be getting bug reports constantly from users
> whose language contains details we never anticipated.

Do we have a clear definition of what are the criteria for this
feature to be "ready for prime-time as a default"?  You are in effect
saying that we will never be able to find good answers for those
questions.  We shouldn't be dismissing a good feature such as this
one, which many users like, due to FUD-like arguments.



  reply	other threads:[~2016-02-27  9:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 263+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-02-09 17:26 On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:39 ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-09 17:54   ` Paul Eggert
2016-02-10  0:49     ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-10  2:20       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10  3:01         ` Pierpaolo Bernardi
2016-02-10  9:55           ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10 18:12             ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10 19:23               ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:48 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-09 16:43   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-09 17:10   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 18:21 ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-09 19:54   ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 20:08     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-10  1:58       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-09 21:07     ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10  2:18       ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-10  2:52         ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-10  2:56         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-10 15:25         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-10 21:17           ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-11  3:39             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 22:36           ` Per Starbäck
2016-02-13  8:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 10:10               ` Markus Triska
2016-02-13 10:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:46           ` joakim
2016-02-11  0:54         ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-11  1:37           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  0:50             ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-12  1:50               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  7:10                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12  7:32                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12  8:44                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 10:03                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 11:11                         ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-12 18:21                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 12:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 18:42                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 19:06                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-12 19:28                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-12 23:57                               ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-13  0:06                                 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-13  8:49                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:20                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-13 17:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 19:15                                       ` John Wiegley
2016-02-18 20:12                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  5:11                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-19  8:20                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  9:22                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 10:09                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 10:51                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 11:46                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 13:37                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 19:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20  5:22                                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20  6:31                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-20  9:18                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 10:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21  2:51                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-21  6:28                                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21  8:14                                                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-23 16:56                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 10:05                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-21 11:01                                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 16:02                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  1:58                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  2:34                                                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-22  2:48                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  6:13                                                                               ` Werner LEMBERG
2016-02-22 18:03                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:27                                                                                   ` Werner LEMBERG
2016-02-22 18:01                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 19:06                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 18:14                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 20:24                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-25 12:11                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-25 14:57                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-26 20:21                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27  5:47                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-27 19:54                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27 20:02                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27 20:05                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 10:25                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-28  6:06                                                                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 17:54                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25 12:15                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-25 12:38                                                                                             ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-25 22:43                                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2016-02-25 22:48                                                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-02-26 18:13                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27  0:48                                                                                                   ` John Wiegley
2016-02-27  8:38                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27  8:58                                                                                                       ` John Wiegley
2016-02-27  9:30                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2016-02-27 16:22                                                                                                           ` Ken Brown
2016-02-27 22:48                                                                                                           ` John Wiegley
2016-02-28 15:57                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 16:59                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 22:59                                                                                                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-02-29  0:22                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-29  0:31                                                                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-29  3:45                                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-27 19:53                                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-27 20:01                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 10:24                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-28 16:01                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                                                           ` <<E1aZyX5-0007bU-Mu@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                                                                             ` <<83oab0ako0.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-02-28 17:00                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 17:59                                                                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-28 18:04                                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 18:15                                                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-28 18:23                                                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 18:46                                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-28 18:22                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-02-28 18:58                                                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 17:56                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25 12:15                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 20:21                                                                                     ` Yuri Khan
2016-02-23 21:15                                                                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-22 18:01                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:58                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23  1:30                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-23 17:46                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24  1:50                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-24  6:40                                                                                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2016-02-24 13:43                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23  2:03                                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-23 17:46                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22  3:38                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  3:57                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22 16:10                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 18:58                                                                               ` John Wiegley
2016-02-23  7:50                                                                                 ` Per Starbäck
2016-02-23 16:29                                                                                   ` John Wiegley
2016-02-21 16:31                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 16:58                                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 17:23                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 18:48                                                                           ` Ivan Andrus
2016-02-22 15:58                                                                           ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2016-02-22 16:35                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 16:56                                                                               ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2016-02-22 17:24                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 17:59                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:57                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 18:03                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-24 13:41                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-23 17:43                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]                                                                               ` <<E1aYGze-000655-RM@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-02-23 18:00                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2016-02-22 17:59                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:51                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-23  0:14                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-23 17:11                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-24  0:16                                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-24 18:39                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-25  0:29                                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-25 16:24                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-29  0:22                                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-29 16:27                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-29 23:40                                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2016-03-01 16:44                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-26 20:23                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-21 16:25                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22  1:56                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-22  9:20                                                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2016-02-23  1:46                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-23  3:38                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-21 12:44                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-21 16:05                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-22 17:57                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-22 18:34                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20  9:21                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20 10:08                                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 10:44                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 20:38                                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-19 22:44                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-19 22:54                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-20  5:25                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 14:32                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-20 15:50                                                       ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-21 12:45                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-20  8:09                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-20 14:32                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-24 23:27                                                     ` Rasmus
2016-02-25 20:46                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-13 18:15                                     ` Artur Malabarba
2016-02-13 18:26                                       ` Drew Adams
2016-02-12 19:09                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-02-12 19:39                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-13 15:32                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-13 15:40                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:58                           ` Andreas Schwab
2016-02-13 17:44                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:37                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 16:50                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:15                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:45                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:52                               ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:46                             ` andres.ramirez
2016-02-14 13:59                           ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-12 23:50                 ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-13  0:33                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-14 13:57                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-14 14:27                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-15 10:28                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-15 12:31                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-15 17:45                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-16 13:54                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-16 14:30                               ` Per Starbäck
2016-02-16 19:32                                 ` Ken Brown
2016-02-16 23:49                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-02-17 16:03                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18  8:57                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-02-18 17:27                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 12:37                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-19 18:31                                         ` John Wiegley
2016-02-17  8:00                                 ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-17 15:34                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 18:30                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-17 19:30                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 20:26                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-17 20:06                                     ` Joost Kremers
2016-02-17 20:15                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 22:58                                         ` Ken Brown
2016-02-18  0:03                                           ` Vinicius Latorre
2016-02-18 17:29                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18  4:55                                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-18 11:26                                           ` Filipp Gunbin
2016-02-18 17:26                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19 12:30                                               ` Filipp Gunbin
2016-02-19 15:22                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 17:30                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-17 22:53                                     ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18  0:11                                       ` Juri Linkov
2016-02-18  0:20                                         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18 17:28                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18  4:53                                         ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-18 17:07                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-18 17:21                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-19  7:40                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-19 19:24                                                 ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-20  5:05                                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-02-20 13:59                                                     ` Achim Gratz
2016-02-19 20:47                                             ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-20 14:31                                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18 17:46                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 18:18                                         ` Mark Oteiza
2016-02-18 18:24                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-18 16:30                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-02-18 17:07                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 16:38                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 17:58                   ` Content navigation (was: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding) Óscar Fuentes
2016-02-13 16:32       ` On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-13 16:47         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-02-13 17:03           ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-02-10 13:52 ` Adrian.B.Robert
2016-02-24  9:58 ` Marcin Borkowski

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