Re: "help" content

Re: "help" content

[Gavin Smith]

On 17 October 2016 at 19:26, madhou <madh2001@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just noticed in the "help" content which is accessed via the key 'h', it is
> mentionned that the '?' key stroke should display a brief list of commands. It
> actually prompts with a "Regexp search backward: " instead. After doing some
> search on internet I found that the right key that works on my version of
> texinfo is 'H'. I'm running slackware 14.2, the version of the GNU texinfo
> shipped within is 6.1.

Hello, the content accessed via 'h' (the info.info file) is maintained
in Emacs. Maybe one of their developers could change the text?

(info)Help-^L

   You have just learned a considerable number of commands.  If you want
to use one but have trouble remembering which, you should type '?',
which displays a brief list of commands.  When you are finished looking
at the list, make it go away by typing <SPC> repeatedly.

>> Type a <?> now.  Press <SPC> to see consecutive screenfuls of
   the list until finished.  Then type <SPC> several times.  If
   you are using Emacs, the help will then go away automatically.
   If you are using the stand-alone Info reader, type 'x' to
   return here.

bug#24825: [help-texinfo] "help" content

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0123@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 08:08:40 +0000
> Cc: "help-texinfo@gnu.org" <help-texinfo@gnu.org>
> 
> On 17 October 2016 at 19:26, madhou <madh2001@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I just noticed in the "help" content which is accessed via the key 'h', it is
> > mentionned that the '?' key stroke should display a brief list of commands. It
> > actually prompts with a "Regexp search backward: " instead. After doing some
> > search on internet I found that the right key that works on my version of
> > texinfo is 'H'. I'm running slackware 14.2, the version of the GNU texinfo
> > shipped within is 6.1.
> 
> Hello, the content accessed via 'h' (the info.info file) is maintained
> in Emacs. Maybe one of their developers could change the text?
> 
> (info)Help-^L
> 
>    You have just learned a considerable number of commands.  If you want
> to use one but have trouble remembering which, you should type '?',
> which displays a brief list of commands.  When you are finished looking
> at the list, make it go away by typing <SPC> repeatedly.

There's a problem here: the '?' key still does in Emacs what the
manual says it should.  So this is a discrepancy between the Emacs
Info reader and the stand-alone Info reader, and I'm not sure Emacs
should be the one which changes.

Why was '?' in the stand-alone reader bound to search-backward?  It
makes little sense to me, at least when in the default Emacs mode.  (I
notice that '?' has the same binding in the vi mode, perhaps someone
wanted to have the cake and eat it, too?)

bug#24825: [help-texinfo] "help" content

[Gavin Smith]

On 30 October 2016 at 16:30, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> There's a problem here: the '?' key still does in Emacs what the
> manual says it should.  So this is a discrepancy between the Emacs
> Info reader and the stand-alone Info reader, and I'm not sure Emacs
> should be the one which changes.

I was asking for the documentation to be changed to mention that you
can press H in the stand-alone info reader, not for what emacs does to
be changed.

> Why was '?' in the stand-alone reader bound to search-backward?  It
> makes little sense to me, at least when in the default Emacs mode.  (I
> notice that '?' has the same binding in the vi mode, perhaps someone
> wanted to have the cake and eat it, too?)

Because "H" is available for the help window and ? searches back in
both vi and less, and users may be used to using the latter to read
man pages and using / and ? to search through a manual. / also
searches forward so it is consistent for ? to search backward.

bug#24825: [help-texinfo] "help" content

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0123@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 17:00:37 +0000
> Cc: madhou <madh2001@gmail.com>, 24825@debbugs.gnu.org, 
> 	"help-texinfo@gnu.org" <help-texinfo@gnu.org>
> 
> On 30 October 2016 at 16:30, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > There's a problem here: the '?' key still does in Emacs what the
> > manual says it should.  So this is a discrepancy between the Emacs
> > Info reader and the stand-alone Info reader, and I'm not sure Emacs
> > should be the one which changes.
> 
> I was asking for the documentation to be changed to mention that you
> can press H in the stand-alone info reader, not for what emacs does to
> be changed.

How can we change the documentation to say that 'H' invokes the
summary, when in fact the summary is invoked by '?' in Emacs and by
'H' in the stand-alone reader (and 'H' in Emacs does something
related, but different).  The info.texi file is supposed to describe
both.

What am I missing?

bug#24825: [help-texinfo] "help" content

[Gavin Smith]

On 30 October 2016 at 17:06, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> I was asking for the documentation to be changed to mention that you
>> can press H in the stand-alone info reader, not for what emacs does to
>> be changed.
>
> How can we change the documentation to say that 'H' invokes the
> summary, when in fact the summary is invoked by '?' in Emacs and by
> 'H' in the stand-alone reader (and 'H' in Emacs does something
> related, but different).  The info.texi file is supposed to describe
> both.
>
> What am I missing?

It can mention both, like

$ diff info.texi.orig info.texi
399,401c399,401
< @kbd{?}, which displays a brief list of commands.  When you are
< finished looking at the list, make it go away by typing @key{SPC}
< repeatedly.
---
> @kbd{?} (or @kbd{H} in the stand-alone Info reader), which displays a
> brief list of commands.  When you are finished looking at the list, make
> it go away by typing @key{SPC} repeatedly.
404,408c404,408
< >> Type a @key{?} now.  Press @key{SPC} to see consecutive screenfuls of
<    the list until finished.  Then type @key{SPC} several times.  If
<    you are using Emacs, the help will then go away automatically.
<    If you are using the stand-alone Info reader, type @kbd{x} to
<    return here.
---
> >> Type a @key{?} (or @key{H}) now.  Press @key{SPC} to see consecutive
>    screenfuls of the list until finished.  Then type @key{SPC} several
>    times.  If you are using Emacs, the help will then go away
>    automatically.  If you are using the stand-alone Info reader, type
>    @kbd{x} to return here.

I'm not sure what "H" is supposed to do in emacs but the Top node of
info.info states "Type 'H' to see a summary of all available
commands."

bug#24825: [help-texinfo] "help" content

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0123@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 17:12:40 +0000
> Cc: madhou <madh2001@gmail.com>, 24825@debbugs.gnu.org, 
> 	"help-texinfo@gnu.org" <help-texinfo@gnu.org>
> 
> > How can we change the documentation to say that 'H' invokes the
> > summary, when in fact the summary is invoked by '?' in Emacs and by
> > 'H' in the stand-alone reader (and 'H' in Emacs does something
> > related, but different).  The info.texi file is supposed to describe
> > both.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> 
> It can mention both, like

That's sub-optimal, and IMO runs the risk of confusing the readers,
but if the stand-alone Info reader won't change its keybindings, I
guess that's the only solution.

> I'm not sure what "H" is supposed to do in emacs but the Top node of
> info.info states "Type 'H' to see a summary of all available
> commands."

I fixed that one as well.

I'm therefore marking this bug done.

Thanks.