From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38730: 27.0.50; tutorial start does not take into account the customization notice Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:41:40 +0200 Message-ID: <83blrxwx1n.fsf@gnu.org> References: <441821C4-EE9B-40E8-970A-13B3C720C07D@traduction-libre.org> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="163176"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 38730@debbugs.gnu.org To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 24 16:42:11 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmK3-000gMt-4X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:42:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmK1-0002fs-PY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33576) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJv-0002dJ-9o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJu-0002bx-8e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46994) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJu-0002bq-5s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJu-00086t-4O for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38730 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 38730-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38730.157720212131167 (code B ref 38730); Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:42:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38730) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2019 15:42:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJt-00086d-5z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52725) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJr-00086N-Pp for 38730@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:42:00 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45422) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJm-0002Wy-86; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:41:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4927 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ijmJl-0004q5-J4; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:41:54 -0500 In-reply-to: <441821C4-EE9B-40E8-970A-13B3C720C07D@traduction-libre.org> (message from Jean-Christophe Helary on Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:37:57 +0900) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:173709 Archived-At: > From: Jean-Christophe Helary > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:37:57 +0900 > > When starting the Tutorial in an emacs session that has modified > keybindings, an information notice is displayed in red/bold characters at the top of the screen. > > That notice pushes the first step of the tutorial to below the visible space of the frame. The user thus cannot see the first step and has to manually scroll down to see it, which defeats the purpose of that first step where the user learns to use C-v to move one screenful down... I'm not sure what use case is described here. If keybindings have been modified, we probably aren't talking about a complete newcomer to Emacs, so at least simple cursor motion should already be a skill he/she already acquired, right? He/she might already know to scroll with PgDn or the mouse wheel, right? OTOH, in a customized session, we can reasonably expect to see a window that is larger than the default shown by "emacs -Q", and maybe then the beginning of the tutorial will still be visible? And if none of the above helps, then what kind of solution would you propose for such a situation?