bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Dani Moncayo]

From Emacsc -Q:

1. Open the info node "(elisp)Association List Type".
2. Try to search for the word "see" (C-s see <RET>).

Surprisingly, the search fails, even though the word exists in the
buffer (beginning of last paragraph).

If I move the cursor to that word and type `C-x =', I see:

Char: * (42, #o52, #x2a, part of display "*Not..."->"See ")
point=123845 of 300271 (41%) <123062-124062> column=3

I don't understand want's going on here, but it seems undesirable to
see a word in the buffer and not be able to search for it.


-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:54:20 +0200
> From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
> 
> >From Emacsc -Q:
> 
> 1. Open the info node "(elisp)Association List Type".
> 2. Try to search for the word "see" (C-s see <RET>).
> 
> Surprisingly, the search fails, even though the word exists in the
> buffer (beginning of last paragraph).

No, it doesn't.

> If I move the cursor to that word and type `C-x =', I see:
> 
> Char: * (42, #o52, #x2a, part of display "*Not..."->"See ")
> point=123845 of 300271 (41%) <123062-124062> column=3

This tells you that the "See" is a display string, and the real text
in the buffer is "*Note".  The display string "covers" that text, and
is therefore displayed in its stead.  See the node "Display Property"
in the ELisp manual.  Set Info-hide-note-references to nil to see the
real text.

> I don't understand want's going on here, but it seems undesirable to
> see a word in the buffer and not be able to search for it.

It's a feature.  I'm closing the bug.

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Juri Linkov]

> 1. Open the info node "(elisp)Association List Type".
> 2. Try to search for the word "see" (C-s see <RET>).
>
> Surprisingly, the search fails, even though the word exists in the
> buffer (beginning of last paragraph).

If you wanted to search the word "see" to navigate between links
then using TAB and S-TAB is an easier way to do the same.

Maybe we should consider changing the default value of
`Info-hide-note-references' to `hide' that will hide both verbs
"*Note" and "See", because nowadays the users of web browsers
understand that a blue underlined link implies a standard action
to visit it, so no additional invitational verb is necessary.

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Dani Moncayo]

Hi Juri,

> If you wanted to search the word "see" to navigate between links
> then using TAB and S-TAB is an easier way to do the same.

Yes, I know.  I was not trying to navigate between links (I realized
it by a fluke).

> Maybe we should consider changing the default value of
> `Info-hide-note-references' to `hide' that will hide both verbs
> "*Note" and "See", because nowadays the users of web browsers
> understand that a blue underlined link implies a standard action
> to visit it, so no additional invitational verb is necessary.

But if you hide "See", the resulting wording will not make sense.

IMO, the problem is that you are seeing text in the buffer (and
therefore you think it belongs to the buffer), and yet you can't
search for it.

Besides, if you try to copy it and paste into another application, you
will also get an unexpected result (the pasted text will be the hidden
one).

-- 
Dani Moncayo

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:57:00 +0300
> Cc: 9349@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Maybe we should consider changing the default value of
> `Info-hide-note-references' to `hide' that will hide both verbs
> "*Note" and "See"

It would also be nice to have a feature whereby C-s could find matches
in display strings, not only in buffer text.

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Juri Linkov]

> It would also be nice to have a feature whereby C-s could find matches
> in display strings, not only in buffer text.

This won't fix other problems in display strings like copy/paste.

I think for Info it would be easier to avoid all these problems by
modifying the text in the Info buffer (i.e. replacing "*Note" with "See")
instead of putting display properties.  This means detaching Info buffers
from Info files, not using narrowing, using positions relative to the
beginning of the node instead of the beginning of the Info file, etc.

bug#9349: 24.0.50; Weird text in info buffer

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>
> Cc: dmoncayo@gmail.com,  9349@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 18:32:59 +0300
> 
> > It would also be nice to have a feature whereby C-s could find matches
> > in display strings, not only in buffer text.
> 
> This won't fix other problems in display strings like copy/paste.

Then let's add that feature as well.  One at a time, though ;-)