From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net>
Cc: 696026-forwarded@bugs.debian.org, 696026@bugs.debian.org,
rlb@defaultvalue.org, 13505@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#13505: Bug#696026: emacs24: file corruption on saving
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 05:48:14 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83a9s3p56p.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130120221007.GG2695@xvii.vinc17.org>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 23:10:08 +0100
> From: Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net>
> Cc: rlb@defaultvalue.org, handa@gnu.org, 13505@debbugs.gnu.org,
> 696026-forwarded@bugs.debian.org, 696026@bugs.debian.org
>
> On 2013-01-20 23:40:14 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:25:08 +0100
> > > From: Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net>
> > > Cc: Rob Browning <rlb@defaultvalue.org>, Kenichi Handa <handa@gnu.org>,
> > > 13505@debbugs.gnu.org, 696026-forwarded@bugs.debian.org,
> > > 696026@bugs.debian.org
> > >
> > > On 2013-01-20 18:49:38 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > > Personally, I don't think there's a bug here. It's a cockpit error.
> > >
> > > Perhaps it isn't a bug at save time. But then, selecting a lossy
> > > encoding by default when visiting the file is the bug (and really
> > > a regression), particularly if this isn't clearly told to the user.
> >
> > The encoding isn't lossy.
>
> You said:
>
> | The original encoded form of the characters as found on disk at
> | visit time _cannot_ be recovered by saving with raw-text, because
> | that encoded form is lost without a trace when the file is _visited_
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> | and decoded into the internal representation.
>
> This is what lossy is.
In that sense, every encoding except no-conversion is lossy.
> On the opposite, the utf-8 encoding doesn't seem to be lossy: Emacs
> seems to handle files with invalid UTF-8 sequences without any loss.
> So, this encoding is safe, even if Emacs wrongly guess the encoding.
No, it isn't, although you could get away with it most of the time.
> But Emacs should clearly tell the user what to do after C-x C-s and
> clearly say when there can be data loss.
At save time, "data loss" is wrt what's in the buffer. In that sense,
the encodings Emacs suggested don't lose any data.
> Then Emacs says: "Select one of the safe coding systems listed below
> [...]", but doesn't say that something has already been lost. So, the
> words "safe coding systems" are really misleading.
It's misleading because you misunderstand what is "safe" at buffer
save time.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-01-21 3:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20121215223809.GA7549@xvii.vinc17.org>
2013-01-20 4:09 ` bug#13505: Bug#696026: emacs24: file corruption on saving Rob Browning
2013-01-20 16:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-20 17:31 ` Rob Browning
2013-01-20 20:24 ` Glenn Morris
2013-01-20 21:25 ` Vincent Lefevre
2013-01-20 21:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-20 22:10 ` Vincent Lefevre
2013-01-20 22:22 ` Vincent Lefevre
2013-01-21 3:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-21 3:48 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2013-01-21 4:14 ` Vincent Lefevre
2013-01-21 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-22 2:35 ` Vincent Lefevre
2013-01-22 7:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-01-20 23:01 ` Andreas Schwab
2013-01-20 23:27 ` bug#13505: Bug#696026: " Rob Browning
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