From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why not zlib-compress-region? Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:16:06 +0300 Message-ID: <83a98x6up5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <53AC0D17.9020604@yandex.ru> <53AD8EA8.9090805@yandex.ru> <83egy97cj6.fsf@gnu.org> <87k381w61p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1403961398 19719 80.91.229.3 (28 Jun 2014 13:16:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 13:16:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com, sdl.web@gmail.com, dmantipov@yandex.ru, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 28 15:16:31 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X0sUY-0007ru-Ta for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 15:16:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54720 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0sUY-00084n-ER for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:16:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42795) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0sUR-00084g-Su for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:16:28 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0sUN-0003BA-9y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:16:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:55186) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X0sUN-0003B2-25 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:16:19 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N7V00400R9DT300@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:16:17 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N7V004IMRJ5L950@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:16:17 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87k381w61p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:172792 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:51:46 +0900 > Cc: aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > Stefan Monnier , sdl.web@gmail.com > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Isn't it true that lately most Posix systems, including GNU/Linux, are > > by default packaged without a development environment? > > Yes, but GNU/Linux package managers (among other free software package > managers) generally include development dependencies in their > databases, so anybody who is not in a high-security situation (where > management has a short list of libraries you can use) can fairly > easily acquire the necessary dependencies I know about the package managers, I just wanted to make a point that AFAIU end-user Posix systems might well lack a compiler. AFAIR, on non-free Posix systems, installing a compiler actually costs money. So having an FFI implementation that requires a compiler might be a disadvantage on Posix systems as well. > usually without going through DLL hell (This is unrelated.) I don't believe in package managers as a means to avoid the "DLL hell". Dependencies are written by people, which are prone to errors, and having several libFOO.so versions on the same system, even if their names don't conflict, is not fun. > (still building your own everything, right, Eli?) Not everything, just things no one built, or built in a broken way. The compiler and Binutils are definitely not my build. > There are minor annoyances, but not so much as to deter people who > aren't afraid to type "./configure; make; make install". We are talking about the compiler and Binutils. Building those, especially the former, is not for the faint at heart, not even on a Posix host. > I've given up more times than I can count (temporarily of course, > when I've got a wekk of evenings free I get back to it) on putting > together Windows dev environments, though. It's not that hard, actually, especially if there's no need to run the configure scripts (as I'd imagine will happen when Emacs supports some kind of FFI).