From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Option to not automatically customize-save-variable `package-selected-packages' Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 22:34:37 +0200 Message-ID: <83a8mwqw0y.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56C43D17.7010009@alice.it> <831t8aufoe.fsf@gnu.org> <8737sp51vx.fsf@gmail.com> <83fuwpubpn.fsf@gnu.org> <87egc9ahav.fsf@fastmail.fm> <834md5u426.fsf@gnu.org> <87vb5l664f.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83mvqxrqql.fsf@gnu.org> <87y4ag3l7s.fsf@gmail.com> <83si0or96s.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3g8366a.fsf@gmail.com> <83fuwor0u5.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455914111 6725 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2016 20:35:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:35:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, johnw@gnu.org, bruce.connor.am@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kaushal Modi Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 19 21:35:05 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlZ-0007DC-1M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 21:35:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55208 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlY-0006yv-Cp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:35:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlT-0006yL-De for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:35:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlS-00044b-DL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:34:59 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39791) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlO-00044D-Nc; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:34:54 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4209 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aWrlN-0006YN-T2; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 15:34:54 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Kaushal Modi on Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:05:29 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200244 Archived-At: > From: Kaushal Modi > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 14:05:29 -0500 > Cc: Artur Malabarba , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, > John Wiegley , Emacs developers > > I'd > still like to understand what's so special about this particular > customization. > > IMO this particular customization is not portable across multiple machines. All machines need not have the > same packages installed; reasons: different emacs versions, one machine begin at work, another at home, > etc. I have the same problem with a lot of my customizations. I don't see why this one is different. > Another reason is that this variable is more like persistent data cache which updates very frequently (unlike > the other customization options which a user typically sets and does "Save for future sessions"). Why is frequency relevant to where the settings are saved? > In the > former case, user has no control on what this variable is set to; in the latter case, user has total control. I think the user has control in the latter case as well: it is the user who decides to install or uninstall packages. > Also the value stored in this variable is more of use to package.el than directly to the user. The train of thought > is that user doesn't care what this variable is set to. But a user would care if delete-selection-mode is set to > nil/t. The user should care about these settings because she wants the same packages to be available in future sessions. Same as with any other persistent customization. > Also frequent changing of this variable value causes noise in git commits (if a user is saving their config using > git); the diff of this variable change is not very helpful as usually people have lots of packages installed and a > glance at the diff doesn't tell instantly which package was added/removed. In crux, committing of custom-file > causes non-useful commits. That brings back to the earlier point that as this variable is machine-specific, > they do not need to be in a file which a user would typically share among machines. If I am used to > delete-selection-mode on one machine, that stays true when I am using emacs on my other machine too. Again, not very different from any other customization that differs between machines. Users should be able to replace Custom forms with plain Lisp code, and then they could resolve the issues with sharing the settings across different machines and with Git easier. I already said all of that several times, so I will now shut up, unconvinced.