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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Bug #25608 and the comment-cache branch
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 19:28:46 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83a89w6181.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20170207210942.GB2490@acm> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue,  7 Feb 2017 21:09:42 +0000)

> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 21:09:42 +0000
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> 
> > If that's what you think, you are not talking about Emacs.  Emacs
> > always behaved as if nothing existed outside of the current
> > narrowing.
> 
> Not consistently.  Font lock, in all the modes I'm aware of, does not
> invert its "stringiness" when point-min lies within a string.

There are a few exceptions, yes.  But mostly what I described is
accurate.

> > Even the display engine behaves like that: e.g., by suitable narrowing
> > of bidirectional text you can completely change how the accessible
> > portion is displayed.
> 
> Is this a deliberate design decision, or is it simply what tumbled out
> after bidi was implemented in the easiest and most natural fashion?

It isn't related to bidi in any way, it's how the display engine
behaved since day one, long before I started coding the bidirectional
support.  I just left that aspect alone and didn't change it.

> > Emacs currently doesn't have any means of knowing that, because the
> > portions of the buffer outside the accessible region are simply not
> > accessible.
> 
> As you know, I've implemented a scheme by which Emacs can know this.

Dmitry's point is exactly that a solution to these issues will also
resolve some bugs related to CC mode, which you tried to solve in your
branch.  I tend to agree with Dmitry that narrowing and its effect on
Emacs internals is a separate problem that needs to be solved in a
more general way than just in CC mode or thereabouts.

> Up till now, recognition of literals has been done solely by the local
> context, probably because it was easier to implement this way rather
> than any deep design decision.  Or am I wrong here?

I think it isn't an accident.  There's a deeper issue here: if some
portion of the buffer is inaccessible to user-level commands, it might
be confusing if some features would internally behave as if the
restriction didn't exist, at least in general.

Finding a solution for this which doesn't introduce the confusion is a
challenge.



  reply	other threads:[~2017-02-08 17:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-02-02 20:24 Bug #25608 and the comment-cache branch Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-02 20:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-02 21:51   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-02 22:15     ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-03  7:41     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-03 17:29       ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-03 22:08         ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-04 10:24           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-06  2:09             ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-06 19:24               ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-07  1:42                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-07 19:21                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-14 15:28                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-14 16:38                       ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-22  2:25                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-22  3:53                           ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-23 14:23                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-23 14:48                               ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-24  7:46                                 ` Tom Tromey
2017-02-14 21:14                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-16 14:10                         ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-18 10:44                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-18 13:49                             ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-12  2:53               ` John Wiegley
2017-02-12  8:20                 ` Elias Mårtenson
2017-02-12 10:47                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-12 11:14                 ` martin rudalics
2017-02-12 15:05                   ` Andreas Röhler
2017-02-12 15:39                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-05 22:00       ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-06  1:12         ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-06 18:37           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-08 17:20         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-11 23:25           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-12  0:55             ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-12 12:05               ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-12 13:13                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2017-02-12 15:57                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-12 17:29                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-12 20:35                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-13  1:47                     ` zhanghj
2017-02-13  5:50                       ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-13  6:45                         ` zhanghj
2017-02-13  7:24                           ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-13  7:59                             ` zhanghj
2017-02-13  9:25                               ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-13 16:14                           ` Drew Adams
2017-02-13  7:05                         ` zhanghj
2017-02-13  7:16                         ` zhanghj
2017-02-13 14:57                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-12 17:49                 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-13 18:09                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-13 19:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-13 21:21                     ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-02 22:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-03 16:44   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-03 21:53     ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-04 11:02       ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-06  1:28         ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-06 19:37           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-06  2:08         ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-06 20:01           ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-06 22:33             ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-07 21:24               ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-08 12:54                 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-07 15:29             ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-02-07 21:09               ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-08 17:28                 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2017-02-02 23:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-03 16:19   ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-04  9:06     ` Andreas Röhler
2017-02-04 18:18     ` Stefan Monnier
2017-02-04 18:28       ` Alan Mackenzie
2017-02-03  7:49 ` Yuri Khan
2017-02-03 18:30   ` Andreas Röhler

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