From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Friendly discussion about (package-initialize) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:14:46 +0300 Message-ID: <83a836ska1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83inhwrqvh.fsf@gnu.org> <83h8xfsx5m.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmnns0jm.fsf@gnu.org> <87a8372nwl.fsf@holos> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1502432148 8751 195.159.176.226 (11 Aug 2017 06:15:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 06:15:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: radon.neon@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Mark Oteiza Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 11 08:15:42 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3ER-0001lW-Ra for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:15:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41425 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3EX-0006ZC-Rq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38156) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3Du-0006UD-Mr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3Dr-0003AI-Rh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:06 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50154) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3Dr-0003AD-Oj; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:03 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4118 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1dg3Dq-0005rA-RM; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:03 -0400 In-reply-to: <87a8372nwl.fsf@holos> (message from Mark Oteiza on Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:00:58 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217412 Archived-At: > From: Mark Oteiza > Cc: Radon Rosborough , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:00:58 -0400 > > The form is put there in order to coddle users who copy-paste > configurations a) into their init files, or b) in Customize settings, > that use symbols from packages before the packages are (auto-)loaded. > > To quote the implementer (from this thread[2]): > > > Another consequence is that users can't paste > > configurations into their init file in the way that 90% of the > > (emacs-related) internet is telling them to. > > By adding the chosen snippet to the user's init file we are preventing > > this sort of problem for new users, instead of telling them it's their > > fault for not understanding package.el. > > FWIW here are some other links to threads surrounding the issue when it > was being debated/implemented: > > [0] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-03/msg00897.html > [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-03/msg01016.html > [2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-04/msg00002.html Thanks for the pointers, I will read those discussions.