From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:29:49 +0300 Message-ID: <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6321"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 08 20:31:30 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qegGQ-0001Sx-9b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 20:31:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qegG9-0003Bg-7F; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:31:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qegFx-00039D-Kq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:31:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qegFw-0007nS-Fe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:31:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegFy-0001YX-6Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:31:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16941978115918 (code B ref 59609); Fri, 08 Sep 2023 18:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2023 18:30:11 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45582 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegF9-0001XO-9V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:30:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56214) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qegF3-0001VH-T0 for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:30:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qegEv-00078t-F9; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 14:29:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=tlGaqzd+C01/2bTsHaANUeM/xCZM/iU8WBpWATfp66Y=; b=KKf84G4YjlDl DwynDmP+LF+ZvEXFiCNr2jbaa0KJt9/W0lnpa8ACcveHi26mo8wFxamdDpHYmTzcDvZujjny/JXcC 2VXRvmy+IrT2zj9juflkXvomrsnn1FkR2tWwCD8mWCOS3LvstJYkUYkcR77wQCgkb4DabIxyN9wHh UUk8twMhG7Gk66L27kpHwjANL3Wj3Kj4mgAuq3/Ozw/6uwOX0pH+PaJTUyyIAnjR0Xz8JvYYlORL+ jk0Do9NGYKhAQtRDSR0wJok5CDL84kbEhZ4BAd3CKV8gKCDO1iIvkstZIkle27yUaJ5vMMV/sfuWI 5EfeQL3iXT7HRNzKSdib3w==; In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:15 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:269812 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Stefan Kangas , 59609@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:43:15 -0400 > > > It's a good starting point, but the copyright assignment issue is not > > the only issue (not even the main one, from my POV). The main issue > > with NonGNU ELPA, IMO, is that packages there don't necessarily adhere > > to the Emacs coding conventions, are not supervised by the Emacs > > maintainers, and do not have to coordinate their development decisions > > with the Emacs team. So their integration into Emacs could be less > > seamless than that of packages from GNU ELPA. > > FWIW, GNU ELPA packages don't necessarily "adhere to the Emacs coding > conventions" either and neither are they all "supervised by the Emacs > maintainers" or "have to coordinate their development decisions with the > Emacs team". Some do, but not all of them by a long shot. Only because we decide not to do that, or are lazy, or whatever. Basically, it's our decision for GNU ELPA, and not so for NonGNU ELPA. > In practice the real deciding factor *is* the copyright assignment > (which often ends up selecting for a kind of "philosophical agreement" > about the primacy of ethical goals over technical ones). I think this is just the tip of a very large iceberg, and the FAQ should say that explicitly. Saying that just the CA is the difference is both very inaccurate and misrepresents the actual situation: NonGNU ELPA is a collection of packages that someone else decided could be useful, but we basically have nothing to do with them except hosting them.